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Subject: Why Columbia Will Stay SAT Test-Optional Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 13:55:07 10/24/25 Fri In reply to: An Observer 's message, "How Can You Map a School or Conference AI Distribution without All the Test Scores?" on 22:42:31 10/19/25 Sun Okay, I think that I've figured out at least one reason why Princeton will delay implementation of its new mandatory SAT policy and also why Columbia is for now staying the course as test optional. And shame on me for not previously recognizing this obvious influence. When you go test optional, you receive more applications. When you go test mandatory, you receive fewer applications. Institutions like getting more applications because it makes their admit rate appear lower. And of course the admit rate will mathematically actually be lower, even though the selectivity of any college has less to do with the size of the DENOMINator in its admit rate and more to do with the quality of the applicants in the NUMERator. After Columbia was caught with their hand in the cookie jar, gaming/faking application and other student body data, its US News ranking fell from #2 to #20. Now the only Ivy outside the top 15, I see why Columbia is hesitant to return to test mandatory as the other seven Ivies have done or, in the case of Princeton, will do. Columbia wants the extra applications to juice the denominator in their admit rate. Look at how Harvard's applications skyrocketed when they went test optional and now are receding in the new era of test mandatory: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/10/23/admissions-data-class-2029/ Harvard doesn't need the extra applications because they are Harvard. A four percent admit rate looks impressive whether its actually 3.65% last year or 4.18% this year. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> Subject: Re: Why Columbia Will Stay SAT Test-Optional Author: Jimbo [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:46:31 10/26/25 Sun US News removed admissions rates from the methodology years ago so this argument doesn't fly.

[> [> [> Subject: The 2023 Changes in US News Methodology Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:41:44 10/27/25 Mon Jimbo, You are correct that US News dropped admit rate expressed as a numerator/denominator during their 2023 overhaul of the ranking methodology. On the other hand, Columbia University has for about a decade worn its admit rate as a badge of honor because, for most of that time, the admit rate of Columbia College and the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (ignoring the School of General Studies and Barnard College) was lower than that at, say, Yale and Princeton. Indeed, it was the second lowest admit rate in the Ivy League, higher than only that at Harvard. Columbia and its alumni invested a lot of emotional capital into that statistic, because it reflected pulling even with HYP. Here's an interesting twist. In 2023, US News made the biggest change to its methodology in two decades. The idea was to de-emphasize variables which reflected prestige to focus even more on student outcomes. The idea was to shake things up and give less of an advantage to HYP, which benefit disproportionately from brand equity. What was the outcome? HYP are still on top. It's unclear what the effect of the changes were on Columbia because the methodology change occurred simultaneous to the scandal over gaming student statistics. Moreover, Princeton -- which has now been ranked #1 for 15 consecutive years and 20 out of the last 22 lists -- has extended its lead over #2 university MIT. Princeton's raw score is set at 100 and, in the current ranking, MIT is at 98, Harvard at 97. Having a 2% advantage in this type of composite average is a pretty remarkable achievement. The 2023 methodology change didn't hurt HYP. It solidified their lead.