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Subject: I think your premise is flawed for several reasons, but... Author: Go Green [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 14:12:47 10/14/25 Tue In reply to: An Observer 's message, "Football Is Not That Different at All and That's Why We Love It" on 09:57:21 10/14/25 Tue If you're asking me if I ever took the coward's way out to end up with essentially the same result, the only thing that's coming to mind is my decision to go to law school rather than try to make it as a screenwriter in Hollywood. I took a screenwriting class at Dartmouth for fun. I absolutely loved it. Far and away my favorite class. But I was too chicken to commit to it as a career and opted for the "safer" career. I had two frat brothers who tried the Hollywood thing. One had limited success, the other pulled the plug after four years or so. I've enjoyed the law, but every Academy Awards show I watch, I can't help but wonder "what if...?" Mrs. Go Green had classmates who indeed gave Hollywood a try and they had tremendous success (including winning Oscars). But back to Tosches, you seem to be thinking that there's some financial benefit to him and/or his staff for winning an outright title. While I've seen stories about some big time college coaches having incentives in their contracts for winning X games, or making X bowl, or finishing X or higher in the rankings, I've never heard of anything comparable for the Ivy coaches. Did Tosches and/or his staff get an extra $20K (or whatever) for getting an "outright" title? If so, that's total news to me... [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Each of Us Will Have to Live with Our Decisions Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:39:06 10/14/25 Tue You have read my last two posts exactly wrong. Read them again. I didn't ask if you ever chose the chicken's way out. I asked if you ever chose THE HERO's way out. I asked if you have ever lived up to the standard that you impose on Tosches. And your answer, so far, is that you too chose the chicken's way out. You loved screenwriting and could have at least given it a try, a few years to see if you could get some traction. If you failed in Hollywood, you could have always fallen back to Plan B for a legal path which, though safe and remunerative, is nobody's idea of a thrilling life, often not even an interesting career. How can you criticize Tosches for taking the safer road of a field goal attempt for the outcome of an outright Ivy League title? He declined a chance for Osborne-like hero status, but his players today wear the gold rings you say Princeton players receive for winning a sole championship. Meanwhile, what have you declined? A chance to pursue the career and life of your dreams. For what? A steady paycheck. You have got to stop holding Steve Tosches to a standard that you yourself have failed. Look in the mirror. Ask yourself whether the reason you are so critical of Tosches' decision-making is that you see in it your own risk aversion and that eats at you.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I've taken risks, if that's what you're asking Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:30:17 10/14/25 Tue I've taken on cases that others thought were were dead losers. Most of the time, the others were right. But I won a few of them! I was on my firms' hiring committee for a while. I can't recall going head to head with other firms--even though I'm sure we were in competition with other firms for a few hotshot law students. I'll reiterate my earlier assertion that your premise is flawed in several respects--of which is that football is just different from other parts of life. If Lyons had done what Tosches did, I would have been unhappy with him as well.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: On Manliness and Honor Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:56:20 10/15/25 Wed For a knowledge professional whose career depends upon consuming and understanding complex documents, your reading comprehension skills are poor. (1) I did not ask you for an example where you were a coward or a chicken -- on the contrary, though I appreciate your offering the example where you declined to chase your dreams in Hollywood for the safer and more boring path of corporate law. (2) I did not ask you for an example where you simply took a risk. Again, I appreciate your story of accepting and pursuing cases other lawyers declined but, frankly, that's not taking a risk as much as it is picking up crumbs others did not want. (3) I specifically asked you, again and again and again, for an example where you chose the path of "manly honor" in pursuing a goal the hard way when an easier option existed. I don't know why you can't understand my request. You have criticized Steve Tosches on this message board for the two decades it has existed. And yet you yourself cannot offer a single snippet where you lived up to your own standard. GG, you're a fraud. You criticize another man for not taking the riskier, tougher path in the name of manliness, or honor, or sportsmanship, but you yourself have no examples of ever doing so either. Your protestation that football is different from any other pursuit in life is bulls--t and you should know it. We love sports because they reflect life, not because they are separate and distinct from life. Teddy Roosevelt profoundly told us that the credit belongs not to the critic, but to the man in the arena. Steve Tosches was the man in the arena in 1995 and he made his choice. As a result, his players were outright Ivy League champions. You are only a critic, not the man in the arena. That you once played football for Dartmouth is irrelevant. You have not once in your life stepped up and made the type of choice you demand of Tosches. Don't criticize Steve Tosches when you have done nothing in your life to earn the credibility to do so. You have not earned that honor.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: If you’re putting me in the same company as Dan Jenkins Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:48:25 10/15/25 Wed I’ll happily take it! :)

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Indeed… Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:12:36 10/15/25 Wed Notre Dame students collected and burned the sports illustrated issue that had Jenkins’ column crucifying the Irish after the 1966 game. I get called a fraud. I stand with Jenkins.