What who where why? -- ExUBF's Parlor_Free wheel as far as u can from UBF

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Date Posted: 08:07:35 03/19/05 Sat
Author: Mike K.
Subject: What who where why?
In reply to: Name with held 's message, "Re: Leaders and Time" on 06:00:24 03/19/05 Sat

"Until that time they would be a Christian meeting and not a Church". Come off it Mike!

Well, did you even bother to read what I said or did you just feel the need to contradict me? I won't go too deep...

I am sorry to say leadership should be a skill in the Church as in any other organisation.

The Church is NOT an organization. The "Church" aka universal, intertemporal Body of Christ is just that. A "church" is a temporal, locally focussed expression of this universal Body, again, it has nothing to do with an organization.

The only difference being that it should be a spirit driven skill. A gift that is developed with Gods help. "What so ever you do do it to the Glory of God". THAT CAN INCLUDE LEADERSHIP.

That's not talking about the Church. Leadership is a personality trait that draws attention from others towards that person. This is, essentially, headship, and that belongs to CHRIST ALONE. We don't need charismatic speakers, people able to sway the masses or men capable of causing others to follow. That is an organization, but NOT the Church. The Church is NOT an organization. Christians organize, but that doesn't mean the Church is an organization.

Now taking the lead is a part of leadership, but only a part. Being able to finish what one has started is what leadership is about. History is full of examples of unfinished business.
Now, don't you believe that "He will finish what He has begun"? Why do we need people doing what the Lord has promised He would do? Do we need idols replacing the Lord?

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name I am in their midst" Knowing the conditions such bodies exist under, I think your legalistic demands will make it more difficult for them to survive.
What's "legalistic" about demanding spiritual maturity from the members of a given congregation?

Mike I think the view of the church that you are presenting is one from a wealthy country where there are resources available.
Are you totally off-topic, or is that falling from the sky? Please, excuse me what does your statement have to do with my opinion that some gathering is only a church if there are certain conditions, such as men capable of building up others, capable of living an exemplary (not perfect) Christian life that encourages others to do the same?

Gods Church is probably everywhere. I expect it is also there in Mongolia
Now, SOMEONE is confusing "a church" and "THE Church" here. There is only one Church, and that is the Body of Christ, composed of all born-again, blood-cleansed, spirit-regenerated human beings throughout time and space.
Not all members of "THE Church" meet in "A church", given the example of UBF I can clearly say some members of "THE Church" meet in a CULT not in "a church".
And no, I don't demand anyone having a minimum net income of $5000 a month in order for them to be members of "a church". I've seen churches in countryside Vietnam, where there is political persecution and gross income of below $100/year, I don't know if you'd consider that "wealthy countries".

In Christ,
Mike K.

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Replies:

Re: What who where why? -- Name with held, 06:19:09 03/22/05 Tue
- Re: What who where why? -- Mike K., 00:06:30 03/23/05 Wed
  - Re: What who where why? -- Tony Lang, 06:11:24 03/23/05 Wed