Re: Social systems -- ExUBF's Parlor_Free wheel as far as u can from UBF

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Date Posted: 08:00:53 01/09/05 Sun
Author: Shane
Subject: Re: Social systems
In reply to: Mike K. 's message, "Social systems" on 08:44:46 01/07/05 Fri

>On somewhat different topic you mention the social
>welfare benefits of Europe. But how long will Europe
>be able to afford these programs? The native
>populations of major European countries are in
>decline. Something has to give, either higher taxes or
>less benefits. Are the good times over in Europe?
>The problem is that, specifically in Germany, our
>retirement fund system was a snowball scheme: the
>younger ones pay for the older ones, called the
>"generation contract"... in principle this sounds
>fair: I work for 30+ years, later I get a retirement
>wage (since I paid for these 30+ years, 10% or more of
>my income, to that fund).
>Fair and square. All of a sudden comes East Germany,
>20 million people who never before paid a cent but
>still, since being equal, draw money out of that fund.
>And since the East German economy is a shambles, the
>young people also don't pay anything. So, the retired
>people from the East start to deplete the funds... the
>previous government shoved the problem under the rug,
>and the new government came and found themselves
>before empty coffers with nagging people who really,
>honestly, deserve money. Now what?
>
>No money left, many people who deserve money, economy
>down, taxes up already, interest rate low already, so
>... no way out.
>Globalization has part to do with it, the laws in
>Germany are totally absurd, the immigration laws don't
>allow people to come from the new European states to
>Germany to work, but they DO allow people to come to
>Germany to leech welfare - and who wouldn't, given
>that welfare in Germany used to be nearly 5 times as
>high as top worker salaries are in their own country?
>
>I can't tell you about other European nations, but
>Germany has become quite lazy as a whole, and it's
>mostly fault of the social system because it actually
>discourages working (hey, you can work for $300/mo and
>have to pay insurance, TV, electricity, ... or you
>could get welfare $400/mo and get free insuance, free
>TV, free electricity, so what do you choose?)
>That's how far overboard it's become with the
>generosity of Germany as a nation.
>And now that they can't keep that system up, some
>people are creeping out of their brown little holes
>and start shouting "it's all the immigrant's fault!" -
>well, no it isn't, it's all the fault of laws that
>were not updated on time, of politicians who chose to
>sweep big problems under the rug, of Germans that are
>too willing to thrive off welfare rather than work...
>the problems are home-made.
>
>
>Problems Chris mentioned...
>Well Chris, I think many nations get these problems,
>again, like in a cult my question is: "So we see the
>problems, now what are we going to DO about it?" - and
>it seems like the politicians aren't able to properly
>answer that.
>
>I have very, VERY little trust in politics that allows
>for a welfare that is nearly twice as high as my
>monthly fee, charging me nearly 50% of my income as
>"study fee" for "social equality" when I can't get a
>cent worth of government benefits and live FAR below
>the poverty level, the social system in Germany is
>just plain rotten and it doesn't seem to get better,
>they make it worse - and the rich get richer and the
>poor, poorer...

Hi Mike,

I was just wondering how one gets rich in Germany with a 50% tax rate? Also what is a "study fee"?
There are also many taxes in the U.S.
1. Federal Tax
a.Income
b.Social Security/Payroll
2. State Tax(Not all states have this)
a.Income
3. City Tax
4. Property tax(for homeowners)
5. Sales tax (Which everyone pays)
6. Gasonline tax

These taxes are for the individual, if you own a business there are of course many more taxes.

I was talking with my dad yesterday and we were discussing his generation versus my generation. My dad is 60 years old. He made the point that more people have the "entitlement" attitude today. Its become just the reverse of what John F. Kennedy spoke about when he said "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country".

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