Re: UBF issues and potential fallacies -- ExUBF's Parlor

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Date Posted: 12:04:57 01/25/05 Tue
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: UBF issues and potential fallacies
In reply to: PECAS 's message, "UBF issues and potential fallacies" on 11:38:00 01/25/05 Tue

1. If we state to a UBF member that if they remain in UBF, they will experience abuse, depception, and manipulation is that a fallacy?

I would say manipulation 100%, deception 95%, abuse 90% or something in that order of magnitude.

Anyway, even if the numbers were lower, it would not be a real fallacy, i.e. something with an error in logical conclusion. A wrong statement is simply a wrong statement, and not always a fallacy.

Afterall, not all shepherds and chapter directors are the same.

That's one thing. Probably more important is the fact that not all members are the same. There are those who cannot easily be spiritually abuse, but there are others, usually those with a fine soul and a conscience, or those who are in a life crisis and are susceptible for spiritual abuse. It also depends how deep you are already indoctrinated and how much you are sucsceptible for indoctrination. They know exactly how far they can go with every individual. So, it does not only matter who the leader is, but also it depends on the personality of the member resp. potential victim.

I have noticed a tendency to argue that because UBF is not forthcoming with financial accounts, they are misused or misappropriated. Is this a fallacy?

This way of reasoning would be a fallacy. The conclusion can only be that UBF's dealing with finances is suspicious, not that they are actually misused. Also, usually UBF doesn't even collect moneys for dedicated purposes. Most offerings are for some nebulous "world mission" which could include buying the supposed leaders of world mission expensive cars or anything. However, the statement itself is not wrong. It has been proven that money for dedicated collections was misappropriated (Bangladesh, Moscow etc.), plus, even UBF admits that most of the offering moneys have been collected on bank accounts over decades, i.e. they were not spent for anything related to world mission in an appropriate timeframe.

However, I would not go so far to say that offering moneys were always misappropriated. This would be an exaggeration.

However, good results in the present does not validate a previous action.

If you want to speak about whether something produced good or bad results, you need some objective system of measuring, i.e. something like "key data" or "operating figures." Such figures do not exist about UBF. We do not know how many people attend(ed) UBF, how long the average stay is, how many commited suicide, how many marriages failed, how many became Christians, how many became hypocrites, how many became confused, how many have fallen away from faith etc. etc. We also would need to take into account how much "(wo)manpower," years and money has been invested to create these results, and whether something much better could have been done with all this people working so diligently for decades. Even UBF does not present any hard figures, plus they completely conceal and neglect any negative results.

Oops, we are not off topic. So we are off topic. So we are on topic again because this is the off topic board ;-)

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Replies:

Re: UBF issues and potential fallacies -- Joe, 14:37:17 01/25/05 Tue

Re: UBF issues and potential fallacies -- Joe, 14:48:25 01/25/05 Tue