my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide -- Unofficial Chris Cornell Forum

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Date Posted: 16:02:57 02/07/06 Tue
Author: chrys
Subject: my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide

over her financial situation. this was not like a whim, i'm gonna kill myself type thing, this was a really concerted effort. she overdosed on strong pain medication and left all sorts of notes all over the house for her housekeeper (also the executer of her estate) who found her unconscious the next day.

this all happened a little over two weeks ago. we have our monday writers gathering at her house every week, and i got there a little early. when i knocked on the door, the housekeeper answered and said no one could come in. she was crying, and didnt' offer a lot of details, but this friend has made it VERY clear over the years that if anything is to happen to her, she's ready to go. she even has a DNR order, so the housekeeper didn't call the hospital. none of us knew what was going on. i just thought she was dying and cried the whole way home.

two days later the housekeeper (who stayed overnight and missed a couple days of work to do so - she lives on another island) said it was too much for her to physically handle so she called the hospital. that day she said to me that they didn't know what had happened, but that too much pain pills was a possibility. as SOON as she said that i knew it was a suicide thing. the timing was too convenient. i even told leo that night that i suspected that.

since then it's been a wild goose chase trying to track her down from one hospital to the psych ward somewhere else and now she's in a convalescent center for a month. when she gets back she will probably have to move into a subsidized housing thing on the island. i went to see her this morning, and it was weird. for one thing, she has said to our writing leader, in a very cavalier way that it was a suicide attempt, and has detailed how thoroughly she had it planned in her head, but has not said any of this to me, so i sort of have to act like i don't know, even though i knew (in my gut) long before that was confirmed.

also the whole thing just strikes me as a little weird. now she's there, happy and chipper as ever, having friends help her out, and sitting there complaining about the food and her roommates and other stuff to no end. it just seems a little odd. from having talked to the housekeeper while my friend was still totally unconscious, i know what the housekeeper went through, and that's the part that just seems, strange, to me. the hk just sounded like she was at the total end of her rope, in every dimension. they have known each other for 12+ years. i don't know what to think about all this. knock on wood i have never known anyone who attempted or committed suicide before.

there was another woman on the island this winter though. she stabbed herself repeatedly, was found and treated and eventually returned to the island only to drown herself.

it's been a rough winter eh?

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Replies:

[> Re:sad -- tg, 16:11:51 02/07/06 Tue [1]

That's depressing. She probably only feels happy, because in a weird way she is having people taking care of her and she feels like people care about her.

It's sad to live that long and want to kill yourself, that's a real shame. She must be really alone, I would visit her whenever you can.

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[> Re: my friend attempted suicide -- lump, 16:18:56 02/07/06 Tue [1]

Wow! Sorry to hear about your friend (and the other woman).

On the other woman...that is a little strange to kill yourself by stabbing yourself repeatedly. Most people want it done quickly. And then drowning is a 3 1/2 minute death, too, right? Not that there's nothing wrong with people who kill themselves...but there was really something wrong with her. I think sometimes...maybe pretty rarely though - these people are saving other people from themselves. :(

And your friend - man at 85 I thought we'd be over those kinds of thoughts and enjoying every moment we have (as long as we're healthy)! 85 years is a long time. At 85, I'll probably look at death like she does with no resesitation (sp?) orders and stuff. I'm sure the housekeeper/friend had some terrible and scary days. I could have never done that for fear that someone would think I did it to her - especially since I'd get the estate! But anyhow - your friend is probably just masking everything with her chipper ways. I do that all the time. It's almost just out of embarrassment. Ignore it and it'll go away philosophy. I'd bet she regrets it and is embarrassed. Some people will not talk with anyone about this sort of thing. I'd hope at 85, she would be wise enough to work it out on her own. As her friend, just be around her as much as you can. Learn from her.

It has been a hard winter. Maybe the hardest in my 31 years. Everyone suffering from depression or that seasonal stuff is having a hard time - and I'm not sure we'll see the end of it soon. Everybody just hang in there - it's like being stuck on a roller coaster. It'll move back up eventually.

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[> Re:my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide -- chrys, 23:35:32 02/07/06 Tue [1]

yes, the woman who stabbed herself and then drowned herself is really a mindfuck. not only that, she drowned herself in a pond of all things, on one of our insanely windy nights when no one would be out. i guss she was also raving about being possessed by demons. i never met her or even knew of her until this happened, so it dosn't have the personal connection that the other one does.

yeah i don't believe the chipper attitude either, the blazee complaints about the food and her roommate and all that. she was obviously too embarrassed about the $ thing in the first place to even tell anyone. the poor housekeeper though, she went over to discuss finances bottom line, and my friend was ordering her around about changing the water in her flowers! jesus christ! i guess i sort of think she's taking the housekeeper for granted, and i feel like i saw firsthand how much hell she had been through in the past two weeks - missing work, working w/o pay, wondering whether to call the hospital or not, crying up a storm and so on, and being the one to take care of the financial aspects of things, and it's like, this is her thanks?!

can i be extremely selfish in this situation and say i'm so glad it's not me? i love my friend dearly, but i think that burden is maybe too much for anyone to handle, to come over and see all those notes, and not know what to do.

so yes, the back to happy as a lark is probably a front. i think she is still in a lot of denial. she was very forthcoming with our other friend, almost joking about her attempted suicide and how planned it was, but she hasn't said anything to me except mentions of "the psychiatrist i saw in the psych ward..."

and now i am rethinking other things...like the night before it happened. like i said we were supposed to have our writers group at her house, and earlier that week she'd sent out an email asking who would be there. i never answered cuz i figured i was a given. then that night she e'd me to ask if i was coming and asked me how things were going with AJ. i wrote back telling her i'd be there and things were great and we talked about this other dude who lives on my property who's sorta creepy, and that was that. it was sort of late too. then the next morning, poof. so now i'm like, did she know when she wrote those emails that she might be dead the next day??? or did she decide later? was it something she had planned for a long time but just chose that night to do it for some reason that no one will ever know? or did she orchestrate it all right then? also our writing group had gotten more social than writerly and in the other group member's responses, some of them mentioned a re-focusing on our main intention, and i wonder how that affected her?

it's funny cuz our little group i think has been a bit of a lifeline to her. well, to all of us really. but it was her house and she LOVED playing hostess. it was getting more and more elaborate. she'd have these meals that had to be set out on the perfect plates and we had to use the real silver soup spoons. all of us kind of went along with it, but felt weird about it, cuz we could see how much it was taxing her physically. she'd get tired and need to sit down periodically and would never let anyone help her w/dishes or anything. the last month or so, i know i wasn't the only one who was getting uncomfortable with the whole thing, and really feeling like the writing part of things was down the tubes. in private, we thought it was like her way of hanging on to failing physical health, but i think now it was also holding on to an older lifestyle full of elegant dinner parties and such things. she was so adamant about doing all these things, having us at her place, and so on. so of course i wonder if some of the group saying we wanted to focus more on writing and less on the social/food aspect, if that triggered something.

anyway, at least things are getting worked out now, and all her friends far and wide are helping her. i am sure they would have helped if she had asked, but i think she didn't know how, like it was a pride/shame thing, and that is one of the saddest parts. she has such a strong circle of people who just love her (some of them quite well off) that it's like, man, she could have just asked.

and what does it mean at that age when someone is willing to kill themselves over finances? what does that say, in a bigger picture?

and yes, this winter has been one of the absolute toughest. last year was colder, but i think this one has been more dreary. usually i don't mind that stuff, even prefer it, but i think it's getting to me too - lots of petty fights lately, and just general crankiness that i can't understand. and i have seen it not just in myself but in lots of other people either. this whole thing leaves me feeling kind of lost too, like i just don't know how to process it or if a person ever truly does. have been weepy for the last two weeks or so, think i've cried more during this time (and definitely not jsut over this) than i have the whole last two years or something, lol.

eddie says:
no matter how cold the winter, there's a springtime ahead.
let's hope he's right...

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[> Re: my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide -- a light, 06:55:58 02/08/06 Wed [1]

Chrys, you know I'm hearing you and feeling for you in everything you're saying. I just wanted to add this thought about trying to understand and make sense of your friend's behaviors. It's more than possible that all the thoughts you've had about it contain a lot of truth, but I'd also guess she is in a condition where it's likely she'll be acting in ways that aren't going to make real sense to anyone with a normally coherent mind.

From what you've said about her, it seems that until fairly recently she's been an alert and sociable woman, probably even unusually so for someone in her mid-eighties. Even for people so blessed there is usually some fragility, with the mind as well as body, that does come with advanced years. If she was prescribed and presumably taking pain-killers they might have altered her usual thought-patterns and mental/emotional states, affecting her more than they would a younger person. The traumas of a suicide attempt, the stresses that caused it, a drug overdose and prolonged unconsciousness could all have been extremely detrimental to her mental condition. As she recovers, it seems that parts of her personality and various 'old selfs', even chipper and blase ones, crop up, sometimes seemingly incongruous to the current situation. During those times it might seem 'all is well' with her mental functioning, disregarding the questionable or unseemly behavior you've noticed. My guess, as awful as it is to say or think about, is that it isn't. I don't think she has as much awareness and control of her own mind as we've come to expect people to have.

That's what I'm picking up from this, anyway. No doubt it could be completely off-base. Still, when you consider it, maybe it could make the situation a little less uncomfortable to deal with in a certain way-- seeing her as a person in a vulnerable state of recovery, even if she outwardly appears to be anything but.

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[> Re: my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide -- lump, 08:46:12 02/08/06 Wed [1]

Weepy - Chrys that's a great word and I've been right there with you - and I normally don't cry at all. I can go years without crying normally.

Anyhow, also, she was on painkillers, do you know which kind? Could she also be on a depression medication?

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[> Re: my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide -- 23, 11:23:03 02/08/06 Wed [1]

"and what does it mean at that age when someone is willing to kill themselves over finances? what does that say, in a bigger picture?"

Well, I think it says what a light said. She's not herself. For some reason, she has lost the ability to prioritize these things, and has blown her financial woes all out of proportion in her head. Just my take.

I hope she's back to herself soon.

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[> Re: my 85 yr old friend attempted suicide -- chrys, 11:56:53 02/08/06 Wed [1]

a light - i think you are right. she was taking oxycodon for pain and all of us around her could notice a difference in the last couple months. she has been a lot more cranky, as well as forgetful, than usual. when someone i know saw her after all this in the short time that she wasn't n the meds, i guess she really shone. now they have her back on them, and i don't know if they are also giving her any psych meds, and the psychiatrist at the senior behavioral place told her that one of her problems before all this was that she wasn't taking ENOUGH oxycodon, it's like wtf?!?!

so you are probably right she's not thinking the way we expect or anything like that. she also used to be pretty well off herself so i wonder if that is part of what made her unable to handle the money situation, like that might have been so tied in to her own sense of pride and identity or something.

iguess you don't realize until it happens, how much it affects you. i thought a lot of my weepiness lately was over like, boy stuff, and some of it surely is, but then again, i think this whole thing is the main thing, that's when i really started crying every day. now i can't get through a day w/o weeping over something, lol. also just started taking birth control and i don't think the pills are agreeing w/me too well. lol so yeah, i have cried more than ever in the last two weeks. this is always a sorta hard time of year i think, february.

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