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Date Posted: 17:44:18 07/27/04 Tue
Author: Nick T.
Subject: Brain Karcher is not real evidence
In reply to: Chris 's message, "Re: How to handle "difficult sheep"" on 05:30:07 07/27/04 Tue

Chris wrote that ubf leaders are propping up karcher as a strawman, a type of spokesman defending ubf in various situations, at this time in response to a concerned parent inquiring why ubf was cast out of the NAE.

Though this is not a legal proceeding, the laws of evidence would have a very relavant application to this type of situation. karcher is being held out as a source of evidence, because he claims on his website to be a sort of reliable source of info about the ubf being expelled from NAE. I copied this from Karhcer's website, on the Q&A section without his permission:


17. What do you know about UBF's membership in the NAE?

I know that UBF was a member of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) in good standing for nearly 10 years, since 1995. I know that the NAE responded to a petition against UBF's membership, signed mainly by those who had left UBF. I know that UBF's membership was terminated in March, 2004. I know that the reason for terminating the membership was due to a breakdown in communications, not due to allegations being true. I have communicated directly with Mr. Kyle Fisk of the NAE.


So what is Karcher saying, and what can should a reasonable person conclude from what karcher wrote? First, it appears that Karcher is trying to say that he investigated the NAE actions, and his conclusion is that ubf has been expelled, but only because of a breakdown in communication. (He offered NO EVIDENCE for this statement, it is strictly an unfounded statement. Why? Good question. Hold that thought)

Then Karcher added another line with "I have communicated directly with Mr. Kyle Fisk of the NAE." Hmm, let's kick this around a little. He seems to be saying several things here, but is also not saying the most important things.

Let's step back and look at this karcher's work from the viewpoint of the rules of evidence.

Here is a violation of one major rule of evidence.

Best Evidence Rule: this prohibits introduction into evidence any secondary evidence (i.e. copy of) unless it is shown that the original document has been lost or destroyed. Where the terms of a writing (written document) are material to the case, the original should be produced if possible.

Karcher is a secondary source of info, claiming that becaue he 'communicated' with Kyle Fisk 'directly' than what Karcher says, we should accept as coming from Fsik himself. This is Karcher's trick and it is totally unacceptable. Karcher could never be anything better than a secondary source of evidence, but the real source of evidence still exists, so Karcher's story is not even admissible as evidence. His story has no value whatosever. The source of the real story is NAE, and Fisk was the point man. Any comments should come from Fisk himself. Fisk took many months, made many overtures to ubf, but his overtures were rejected by ubf. After more than six months of playing possum, ubf was expelled. And there is no chance to rejoin.

Another violation of the rules of evidence by Karcher

Authentication: Before evidence is received into evidence, it must be authenticated by proof that shows it is what it claims to be. (i.e. a sample must have proof that it came from a specified place and has not been adulterated on purpose or mischance.)

How can anyone know if Karcher's analysis (communication breakdown) is representative of the actual event? To know for sure, then karcher's story must be corroborated by the NAE. The most certian way is to contact Mr. Fisk and ask him yourself. In the story from

http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000746.html


Kyle Fisk Executive Administrator and official spokesperson for the NAE told CultNews today that the NAE, which includes 30 million members, has tossed UBF out of the 60-year old organization. Fisk said that the NAE remains in open dialog with UBF, but it is doubtful that UBF would be readmitted as an NAE member. The NAE has not yet released an official announcement, its spokesperson said.

This article states that the authors contacted Fisk, and no official statement has been released. So both karcher and cultnews claim to have direct contact with the source, but karcher's analysis is totally different from cultnews.com. And it is different from my own e-mail from Mr. Fisk which read (dated 3-30-04)

To Whom It May Concern:

This is in response to your inquiry regarding the membership status of University Bible Fellowship (UBF) within the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE). Please be informed that at this time UBF is not a member of NAE. Thank you for your concern. Any additional questions can be directed to our member services division at the information below.

Sincerely,

Kyle Fisk, Executive Administrator
National Association of Evangelicals
(719) 268-8211 (office)
(719) 548-9000 (fax)
kfisk@nae.net
www.nae.net



If someone would like a forwarded copy of this e-mail, please let me know. The bottom line is this, collect and examine the evidence yourself, and then evaluate it for value. Then make reasonable conclusions based on the relavant evidence. Don't be fooled by false evidence. It seems that false witness is the easiest type of false evidence. Personally I beleive that karcher is engaging in deception and is not interested in providing real evidence. What do you think about that? God bless.

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