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Date Posted: 12:06:07 04/16/02 Tue
Author: Richard
Subject: Re: Thinking indirectly about Romans 8:2
In reply to: Jay Dee 's message, "Re: Thinking indirectly about Romans 8:2" on 10:23:13 04/16/02 Tue

Jay, greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

you said

Romans is a fascinating book. There are parts of it that speak to Christians that obviously had a Jewish background, but then parts of it are directed at those with a gentile background. This is something to keep in mind while reading it.

My observation--I would be interested in how you arrived at the idea that parts of Romans are directed toward Gentiles per sec?

I know the Roman church began at Pentecost and when those folks--Jewish went home they took the gospel to their fellow Jews--Peter in Acts 10 reminds me that there was no love lost between the two groups. Further, that while acknowledging that Salvation was for all--It began with the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This is why I asked the question--I would be interested in seeing how you add the gentiles.
Ture, the faith of the Romans was known throughout the world but with all these centuries of hatred between the two groups--I suspect that the Gentiles and the Samaritans began being added in that acts 8-10 time period.

I had stated

"Ok--how do I as a Gentile fit into this? I am not a Jew was never born a jew and thus was never ever under that particular law. Thus I could not escape that law by marrying Christ."

My additional thoughts...While I can to some degree understand and accept the Gentile's natural law--I found for me a better answer--and, I found it by looking at "LAW"

See if this makes sense
[1] Law in the Garden--with its demise that law goes
[2] While we know almost nothing of a direct nature of the laws God gave to the people after the garden--I know that such law exists. For instance, how did Joseph know that going to bed with his master's wife was adultery and not to be done...
From the story of Cain and Abel we do know that Sacrifices were offered for sins and that they had some idea as to what that was. With Abraham and the Fathers--I see what I call Law of
the Fathers. This is where the head of the tribe seems to act as the gobetween for him and his family.
[3] I see God "separating out" of all the people those folks who were the descendants of Abraham and GIVING THEM A NEW COVENANT.

[4] In the Giving of the New covnenat--it was limited to those folks present and not any of the people prior to that time.

Now, we have two basic groups of folks in the world

[a] The group that God has separated out--The Jews
[b] Everyone else
[c] Both have a governing set of laws that are still in existence.

[5] With the advent of Grace--Jesus Christ--Usingthe Mosiac law as a model that can then be applied to the law of the fathers--I find three laws in force at this time..

[1] the Mosiac law--For the Jew to escapethe Mosica law--According to Romans 7--The Jew must divorce the Mosiac law by marrying Christ.

[2] For the law of the Fathers--for the Gentiles to escape the power of that law--Just as the Jew had to marry Christ--so must the Gentile--divorce the natural law as you describe it or the law of the Fathers--and, marry Christ.

[3] The law of the Spirit of Christ--Grace
Under this law Sin cannot use the law to separate us from God as Sin can and does do under laws one and two above.

Sometimes I think my thinking gets a little muddied about the teachings of Grace and law until I have learned to separate them out and to identify them.

Now without violating Grace--I can begin to think of Grace having its own set of laws set forth in the New Covenant without tying the ideas and teachings of law[Mosiac law] to the law of the Spirit of Christ--Romans 8:2 is very helpful to me here.

YOu said
However, for the Christian, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set you free from the law of Sin and death (Rom 8:2). By that we daily put to death the deeds of the flesh (8:13). And the end result is that we overwhelmingly conquer through him (8:37).

My response, Yes, I agree--it is just I need to be able to understand why we often confuse grace and law and in that process learn about the laws and how they work or don't work.

Richard

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Re: Thinking indirectly about Romans 8:2 -- Jay Dee, 14:54:32 04/16/02 Tue