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Subject: Same old story. Author: never mind! [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: "Wed, May 18 2011, 1:31:45 GMT" It's unlikely that any players in the first team squad next season will be players from our own system.Bar the odd one or two. We will be a squad of bought in players. Our youth has no chance, the club can't believe they could be good enought. But who knows? Maybe we can get Glos / Worcs /Northhampton connection again. That will inspire our colts/mini/juniors. I'm personaly of sick this club taking the credit for players getting on, like the Glos boys who are doning so well, we say it's because of us, yeah what ever! I hope next season we have a coach who will develope our players, because uptill know it's the players who really have got the results. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: What a lot of baloney! Author: disbelief [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Wed, May 18 2011, 7:42:00 GMT" I suppose Adam Caves, Ollie Thomas, Mark Evans, Neil Mason,Callum MacBurnie etc - to name just a few of the current or near immediate squad - are all "bought in players" are they? The reality is that if we can get one of two players who are good enough to progress from our Colts each season we will be doing well. From what I see there is plenty of opportunity to do this at Moseley club and the problem is that these daftly located England Academies unnaturally pull our own produced players away from us to other clubs. Sort that out and we could probably have a few more in our squad. Come on management isn't about time you got an Academy at Mose? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Good posts but one additional clarification Author: Kevin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Wed, May 18 2011, 18:13:09 GMT" Good posts "disbelief", BN and BRD. The only point I would add is about Academies. The reasonable gripe at Mose is that those with the England Rose are funded by the RFU at "PRL cartel clubs" - that is, with the money of Moseley and all the other 1,000 clubs in England and their members. As I understand it, all Mose are asking for is to be able to keep and develop all their own players which they have produced by using their own money in their own Academy. It is not to go on a poaching mission. Our youth set up is immemsely strong in its own right and we have had some outstanding products over the years. There is a whole Premiership side out there of people who started or came through Moseley.All Mose are asking for is a level playing field and some benefit from the work which everyone at the club puts in to develop players. We have an enviable record of developing p;layers up to and into the 1st XV- despite what the first poster claimed - but with our own Academy we could do even better. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: academy status Author: baz [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Sat, May 21 2011, 1:57:27 GMT" I appreciate there are problems with premiership clubs poaching young players that we have put the time and effort into, in many cases coached, and supported largely through voluntary efforts with no real support from the RFU. So could there be any scope for sorting some kind of system where young players sign to the club for a set period but have to be bought from us by higher level outfits, pretty much as it runs for the rest of rugby. Clearly this way even if Mose didn't hold on to players there would at least be some financial reward for bringing those youngsters on. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Colts and academies Author: BillesleyNomad [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Wed, May 18 2011, 9:12:10 GMT" Reading posts like this one always leave me wanting to ask "who'd Dad are you?" Last season we had (from memory) at least 7 former Moseley Colts in the 1st XV squad; all of whom played Championship rugby. I'd be very surprised if there was another club in the Championship who could boast the same. The fact is that Rugby at this level is now a professional (or at least semi-pro) business and 1st XV players are employees of the business. To suuceed you have to ensure you have the best team your budget allows for. It is testament to the quality for the junior section of the club that so many former Colts are able to go on and represent the club in the Championship. There really do seem to be some people who need to wake up to the fact that if they want to see the Club thriving in the upper echelons of English rugby it can't be run like a cosey old suburban drinking club where "so and so's lad ought to get a game given what a splendid man his Dad was" etc As to the academy problem; unless or until there is a shift in policy we will loose more players than we ought to the Prem academies. That said if the RFU changed the policy and located an academy at Moseley we'd be the target of the same complaints from clubs a level or 2 below us. Facing facts players gravitate to clubs that are appropriate to their ability - they always have done. Now that money is involved the richer the club the better the players they can afford. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Well said BN Author: BRD [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Wed, May 18 2011, 14:09:01 GMT" I have to agree with most of your post Billesley Nomad. Some of the problem is that people (parents included) don't appreciate the step up in ability/quality/power that is required to move from Colts rugby to any Senior rugby, let alone the Championship. The size/power/fitness of all levels (national) has increased immeasurably over the last 5/10 years. This means it is a lot more difficult to move from U20 to Senior rugby, at a high level, than before. Therefore, the more likely route into a Championship club, for most players, is to move to maybe a Level 3/4/5 club where they can develop and, if good enough, come back to Moseley at a later stage. This applies more to forwards than backs, obviously Also agree with your comment that: players gravitate to clubs that are appropriate to their ability - they always have done. however, i would add:- players gravitate to clubs that are appreciate their ability - as they say 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. My only comment on Premiership academies is basically unprintable. Once again, good post BN cheers BRD b.t.w. Both my boys have played for Moseley Colts, one has played for the 1st team and, hopefully, the other one will in the future [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Well said BN Author: red nose [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Mon, May 23 2011, 0:55:16 GMT" "My only comment on Premiership academies is basically unprintable." Well I don't know why... my lad is at Wuss and the training is fantastic, totally professional. Mose hasnt got the facilities or full time coaches/physios to produce premiership players. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: The poinyt being... Author: BillesleyNomad [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Mon, May 23 2011, 9:51:44 GMT" That those facilites are RFU funded. The RFU want to see young England qualified players training and playing in a professional environment. Their solution; fund academies at Prem clubs who can then lend (DR) the lads to clubs in the Championship. How much competative rugby does your lad get for Wuss? Why not put the support in place to fund the training/development of players at the level where they can play competative rugby. John Steele is always on about how there are no "hand-outs" from the RFU; everything he tells us is based on getting a return for English rugby. Just a shame that he, along with the rest of the RFU, forgets that English rugby is a lot more than team England and the Premiership and that there are lots if clubs outside of the AP who are perhaps more deserving of RFU "investment" than some within. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: The argument about academies.... Author: Red&Black Pear [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Mon, May 23 2011, 10:02:09 GMT" ....is not that they don't provide excellent facilities and professional coaches which they obvisouly do but that they draw young players away who do not get meaningful playing time because the "A" league is a farce (only taken seriosuly by clubs if they get anywhere near the final) and then have to be loaned out to other clubs to "develop" their skills. If the Academies were so good then there would be a proper academy comepetion, as there is in Rugby League, and players would not be being "loaned" out but would get all their skills and game coaching at the Academy rather than just being tunred into identikit gym monkeys. And why shoudl the academies just be at Premiership Clubs? If the RFU actyually cared about anythign other than The Cartel they would see that some clubs outside it have a fantastic record of producing and developing talent. Nothing against your lad Red Nose or Worcester per se but the whole Acadamy system was skewed right from the start and should be either revisited or scapped competely. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: rfu funding Author: jonnoisgod [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Mon, May 23 2011, 17:37:59 GMT" I know of two lads who are / have been with a Prem academy , one is on the verge of being released after wasting two years of his parents cash on his accomadation , expenses etc , which annoys me when you see the amount of money swilling around in the RFU and lads have to pay themselves , the other is about to go to the same club and as his parents had not got the money to send him hes had to raise it from sponsers , which to be honest , is disgracefull ! . The first lad was told , in his first year to eat as much as possible and to do mainly gym work , as such he put on 3st , as someone said , all academy lads are is gym monkeys , I wonder if you are brought over from Samoa with very little cash , do the club help you out ? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Transition to 1st XV Author: Ale [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Wed, May 18 2011, 14:39:27 GMT" The whole dynamics of rugby has changed greatly on and off the field in the professional era, pre 90's there was a clear transition out of colts into the Moseley United side (if you were very lucky), more likely Vandals or Vikings teams, to get 'blooded for senior rugby'. The vandals for instance would travel away with the first XV to play the same club at the same level, often facing teams comprising of several internationals coming back from injury, or ex internationals seeing their rugby playing days out. I'm not so sure that would even be possible for prem sides to do now. So in my hope this is where Oak might bridge a mighty gap. If they can canter on up a few leagues under John Whites regime, it would definitely become an attractive arena for colts wanting to press on and wannabes to show they have the metal and skill to make it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Same as before! Author: never mind! [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Mon, May 30 2011, 22:26:15 GMT" One real question? What ever happens with the new coach, what evers happen with next season, are we going to develope the young players in our squad, or is next season just about survival. In my opinion last season was all about the next game. Name me one who player learn't anything form last years coaches, always interested to see any of last years team say, God I learn't so much! We still have certain people who beleive, it's about about our style, Moseley were always about a style, a team that people said, a pleassue to watch. I know it's about winning, but please please, lets start playing a magic way again. Moseley Oaks aparnetly won in Holland, but I bet that team would have played the Moseley way, style with a load of heart when it mattered. Read between the lines, or some people may think it's a laod of balllll [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Eh? Author: BillesleyNomad [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: "Mon, May 30 2011, 23:27:54 GMT" What the crocodile hat are you on about? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]