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Subject: Re: Inner-Board Roundtable #1


Author:
BradPierce5
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Date Posted: 14:09:17 04/18/02 Thu
In reply to: MODERATOR 's message, "Inner-Board Roundtable #1" on 14:06:51 04/18/02 Thu

Okay folks, we're justing waiting on confirmations from one more person and we'll be able to start the Roundtable.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Inner-Roundtable #1 Is Now Open.


Author:
MODERATOR
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Date Posted: 10:48:23 04/19/02 Fri

The Roundtable is now open. Feel free to post your thoughts, responses, etc. The Roundtable will be stopped around 7 PM Eastern, unless we need more time on it.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Inner-Roundtable #1 Is Now Open.


Author:
Michael Skinner
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Date Posted: 11:45:12 04/19/02 Fri

That is a very good question, and those who are familiar with my constant pro-GCN rhetoric may be surprised by my answer.

Eternal Darkness is easily my most anticipated game. If I end up going to E3, it will be the first game I wait in line for, even though I know it is only a stripped demo. The combination of epic storyline and revolutionary gameplay elements has me drooling, and if this game delivers on its promises, I think we easily have a classic on our hands.

Grand Theft Auto 3 is a great game. Really, it is a very fun game, and it has almost infinite replay value if you like it. I have friends who started playing it when it came out, and still play it every day. I got bored of it rather quickly, but by bored I mean that I play it and enjoy it and then realize that I just spend 3 hours trying to see if I could get a cop to follow me off of a jump into the river. What am I doing with my life L. As a gamer, I only like to play a game while I have an objective by which I can measure my progress. Grand Theft Auto 3 doesn’t really provide me with that, so I don’t play it much anymore.

So which would have a more substantial affect on GAMECUBE? I think the obvious answer is GTA3, even if it was not exclusive. Here’s why:

[b]Casual Gamers[/b]

Casual gamers probably account for a majority of game sales. There are two things that I think attract casual gamers and create hype. The first is pick-up-and-playability. No need to get into a plot or understand what is going on. Once you learn the “attack” and “drag driver out of car” buttons on GTA3, you can pretty much wreak havoc. When you can see a game at your friend’s house, and try it out, you are more likely to buy it yourself. Games with complicated controls or complex storylines are more one or two person affairs, which is one of the reasons no one was interested in FFX in the story I tell a bit later.

Another thing that attracts casual gamers is some aspect of the game that stands out and grabs their attention, in this case shock value. Face it; kids have basically no morals these days. The worse things are that you simulate happening in a game, the worse gamers will want it. I remember not too long ago, my friend brought over his PS2, and we were playing FFX in my living room (the PS2 now pretty much resides at my house). There were several other people around, not gamers by a long shot, having… refreshing beverages. One guy who was watching us play noticed that we had GTA3 sitting on the ground.

“Hey, you have GTA3”

All of a sudden, people were interested. Another guy turned away from the girl he was talking to and said:

“Wait, is that the game where you can hire a prostitute, **** her, and then kill her and take your money back?”

My friend: “Yeah, you can do that”

Drunk guy: “Awesome! Lets play it!”

He was joined by most of the other people in the room who were now interested in video games once they learned that it was possible to shoot hookers in them. This makes me wonder what this world is coming to, but that is another discussion. That kind of stuff sells, as is evidenced by GTA3s incredible sales numbers. I have heard a lot of people bring up GTA3 as THE reason to buy a PS2, that it alone is worth the purchase of a PS2. If GCN had it, the rest of PS2’s lineup would have to compete with Nintendo and Rare’s AAA titles, along with much better third party support. Also I don’t think that there is any other game that would go farther in getting grid of the “kiddy” image Nintendo has. While I don’t consider GTA3 mature in a literal sense, it is the most popular game with an “M” rating, and is very controversial because of its content. If it was on GCN, it would start changing minds about GCN’s demographic.

So there it is, as far as sales and stereotype, GTA3 would do a lot for Cube; more than ED IMO. That does not mean it would be my choice, but I will not try to argue with the unprecedented widespread appeal that GTA3 has.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Inner-Roundtable #1 Is Now Open.


Author:
KevinCube
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Date Posted: 15:54:18 04/19/02 Fri

I feel a number of different ways on this issue.

Sure, I fully understand the huge impact that GTA3 has had on the market. I've seen the hysteria. I've stared in awe at the sales numbers. I'm aware that people still play it every day...

When I think about the Nintendo GameCube, however, and I consider its presence in the world of console gaming over these next years, I don't see the addition of GTA3 as radical or beneficial as I guess you guys do. I think Eternal Darkness will build for itself a new and respectable following without tapping in to what Sony has already done. ED will blaze its [i]own[/i] trail, and therein lies integrity. Therein lies innovation. Therein lies... the Nintendo difference. An excellent game that is all Nintendo's own. No one can touch it. That, to me, is more beneficial.

If we were to get the non-exclusive GTA3, it very well could turn quite a few heads - especially those of the casual gamers. But (as you guys have already stated) Sony has the fanbase and the sales. If you release a major game on all three next gen consoles, Sony will have the numbers to substantiate the PS2 userbase. We have Madden and Tony 3, and those were some of the best-selling titles of last year... but not because they were on Cube. It was all because of Sony.

When a major "casual gamer title" is ported, we don't see casual gamers buying GameCubes all of a sudden. The fact is, we're getting the games late - really late. Most of those people already own GTA3. And most of the Nintendo diehards already bought it if they really wanted to play. This is not hard to understand, since so many GCN fans own a PS2 as well.

To succeed in winning more casual/mainstream gamer market Nintendo needs to pull them in with things they [b]can't[/b] get on their PS2. Furthermore, Nintendo needs to prove to developers that the GameCube is a viable place to put a game with mature content. They need to prove a mature game can survive and thrive on their hardware. Only then will we see franchises like GTA come to the Cube. But like I said, it's not enough to get great mature content ported long after initial release on PS2 - Nintendo needs developers to have the faith and foresight to simultaneously release games of that nature. While Micro$oft seems content to throw millions into getting enhanced scraps from Sony's proverbial table, this has never been Nintendo's style and I doubt it will ever be.

Not to mention the fact that GCN ports of PS2-designed games have to put up with PS2's terrible weaknesses and bottlenecks. This is a separate issue, though...

If I was a casual gamer, I would not buy a GameCube simply because it had GTA3. Most likely I'd already have a PS2 and I'd be happy. If I didn't have a console yet and I wanted that game, I would buy a PS2 and not a Cube because I know of other poular games that are mature and cool on that system. [b]It's not duplicate software that will turn the tables[/b], because by that logic Nintendo should just start calling Sony "Daddy."

It's not always the most popular thing that is the most legendary. For example, the Tonight Show with Jay Leno is the most-watched late night show EIGHT YEARS STRAIGHT. The majority of people watch Jay. But fifty years from now, people will look back and remember not Jay, but Dave. It is Letterman who is the legend. Letterman has the larger crop of avid, diehard supporters. Letterman has innovated more, explored territory first, and broken ground. Dave Letterman is a legend, Jay Leno is a pop culture icon... for the time being.

So many Nintendo fans want Nintendo to be a "Lenoman," but we can't expect the market to always be the same as it was between '87 and '94. Times have changed, and personally I'll be fine sticking with Dave (Nintendo) until the rest of the world sees the value in it. And for that to happen, we need to see the Cube benefit. Games like ED are what will make this happen.

Eternal Darkness is the more beneficial game.

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