[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement:
Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor
of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users'
privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your
privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket
to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we
also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.
Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
[ Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 13:30:28 12/09/02 Mon
Author: UHC
Subject: Topic: Why are they torturing Spike
now as much as I like to see the bleached on in pain. Do they have to take his shirt off to do it? But I'm still confused as to why the FE is torturing Spike.
It isn't like he has information for the FE. So its not a repeat of Glory.
Now what about the whole Han Torture at Cloud City. Is this the type of thing where they are doing it just to draw Buffy in? Kinda lame if thats it. Cause first of all, she doesn't even know about it. (they aren't telepathically linked or anything.) So how exactly is torturing him bringing her any faster?
Its also been suggested that this another form of getting Spike deeper into the scoobies ranks so he can pull his Trojan horse routine. What better way to make them trust Spike than to make it look like the FE no longer has use for him other than to cause him pain. This to me is actually believable but its pretty farfetched at this time. Maybe if we see something in how Spike is being tortured, like more brainwashing type stuff.
This is Spike's Hell dimension. Another suggestion made to me. That this is how Spike is paying for his crimes like Angel paid when he was sent to hell for 100 years. First of all thats lame. 100 years in Hell or a couple days of Torture, seriously there is no comparison. Not to mention this theory says nothing about the FE's motives here. This is just talking about the writers justifying spike's goodness. ie, he suffered so he's ok now. No thats not gonna work for me.
Part of the Ritual? maybe I could believe that. But this ritual seems to make not much sense. first it was gonna work with just Jonathan being killed, then pigs blood would have been enough, then Andrew was gonna work. Now Spike is filling in and instead of just draining him of his blood they have to torture him for a week too, something that wasn't mentioned about the other sacrifices. So I dismiss this reason because its just hokey.
The FE is doing it just because its Evil. I guess that possibe. But pretty pointless. And boring. and for a villian who to this point has done everything for a reason with some master plan that is continually being revealed. To just waste time torturing this vamp seems pretty out of character.
So I'm out of ideas. Anyone else here have thoughts? Any of these make sense to you?
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Replies:
[>
Oh no!!! They are torturing my Blondie Bear!! :-( (hmmm, I bet its so he’s nekkid ;-) -- Phaedra, 13:50:30 12/09/02 Mon [1]
Ok, first, I can only speak about eps up to the present, Never Leave Me.
Bit of confusion here: 1) the FE convinced Andrew to kill Jonathan ... for the blood? To open the portal? 2) When Jonathan’s blood DIDN’T open the portal, the FE ordered Andrew to purchase lots and lots of pig's blood?!!! So, it’s not picky what kind of sacrifice is made to open the portal? 3) When Andrew was “captured” by Willow and the FE did not get its supply of pig's blood, the Harbingers (sp?) were sent to capture Spike to use as a blood sacrifice ... a vampire?!! Don’t you usually have human sacrifices, virgins at that!!
End of confusion speak.
Ok, so, they now have Spike, strapped to the wheel, carving intricate designs in his chest *drool* ... Pardon me ... And when inverted over the seal, his blood opens the portal and releases the First Vampire.
Now he’s going to be tortured?!!! Why. Usually torture is done to get information (or pleasure) and since when is Spike, Mr. Information guy. I can see why they would do it without his shirt – prolly didn’t go pick it up from the school basement floor. But, the torture? Hmmmmm.
Drawing Buffy in ... Can’t see that either – she’s already in. And, like you say UHC, she is unaware of the torture.
I agree, Trojan horse is farfetched. First of all, because, HELLO, already in with the Scoobs. In fact, they had to break into the Summers household for him!!! You’d have to be blind to think he hasn’t already infiltrated the gang.
I agree, this has nothing to do with comparing Angel’s torment with Spike’s. I, for one, truly see different paths for the two. And, contrary to popular belief, I don’t think the writer’s are throwing this in for a sympathy card for Spike.
My theory: I see it as a means to break him. Whatever the FE had/has planned for Spike, he’s been fighting it all the way. The FE has said that in so many words – he’s not doing as he’s being told. Soooooooo, the FE WANTS something out of Spike, and I don’t know what that is.
[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
I think we agreed in there more than ever before -- UHC, 16:15:05 12/09/02 Mon [1]
First of all, I don't think the Trojan horse is disqualified by the reasons you gave. The first does know that they had Spike tied to a chair, and then chained to a wall. They know he is at least suspected of all this. So the First knows that they aren't going to be quick to just accept him as completely safe. And as long as they are taking precautions where Spike is concerned, it might be that The First can't do everything he/it wants him to. And also I have to agree, Spike was resisting. More brain washing was needed.
But could it be possible that the brainwashing is being done in a way that will make Buffy and Co. more sympathetic. (although I'm not sure Buffy can be alot more sympathetic, she seems a bit twisted now) Apparently there is no middle ground for that girl, she is either heartless or over board emotional.
But what I'm saying here agrees with your more conditioning theory. And it still kinda incorporates the Trojan Horse idea. And at least I kinda buy this.
Though it will still depend on what exactly is involved in the more Spike torturing.
[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [>
:-) Better than fighting, huh? -- Phae, 16:31:32 12/09/02 Mon [1]
I still disagree on the Trojan horse theory. For it to be effective, he would have to NOT change every time he is triggered. We see he very much changes and throws up red flags when he does so. PLUS, if the FE would quit messing around with his brain, he would be accepted quicker, faster, easier, more completely. But, nooooooooo, the FE has him killing again. So, Trojan horse theory = lame (IMHO) ;-P
Have I told you lately how cute you are? I have? Oh, ok ... never mind :-.)
[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [> [> [>
See I'm confused -- UHC, 16:35:18 12/09/02 Mon [1]
By trojan Horse I mean that basically what spike has already been doing. He seems innocent enough normally. Even to himself. But when Triggered it all jumps out. Like you said big Change.
I don't know if I beleive Spike will conciously take action against the scoobs. But I still think this might be further programming.
[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[ Edit | View ]
[>
I don't think there's a big, complicated reason for it. -- Glory, 14:19:13 12/10/02 Tue [1]
I just think it's another variation on Kick the Spike. ME evidently wants to turn Spike into an Angel-esque hero. He's gotta pay for his sins cuz he was a big bad soulless vampire. So now he's gotta suffer, suffer, suffer. He's just being used as the FE's bitch and personal punching bag.
[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[ Edit | View ]
[> [>
As much as I enjoy a good game of kick the Spike -- UHC, 21:25:56 12/10/02 Tue [1]
I really don't think it can be as simple as all that. However yes it is likely we might be looking into this alot deeper than ME intended. Unfortunately it might be as simple as they just want the audience to feel sorry for spike even more. Well I'm realy sick of that scenario.
And I know I'm not the only one tired of the Pity Spike Party. They are going to have to start a support group for him.
But I do think They are doing this to build more sympathy for Spike. But my question was directed more to the story behind the FE. Why is he doing what he is doing? What is the justification to him doing this. And if its just "Because he's evil." Then ME has lost even more class. (not that a whole lot remains after last years smut athon)
[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[ Edit | View ]
