Re: The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents -- Bob Geldof Message Board

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Date Posted: 19:12:57 11/13/03 Thu
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents
In reply to: Lynne Lopatin 's message, "The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents" on 10:20:30 10/18/03 Sat

Lynne, I completely understand and agree with you 100%.

A sole custody system is nothing more than a status quo system which rewards the first person who files a divorce action .. inevitably, it does not matter who is better as a sole custodian or otherwise given the courts use "presumptions" related to who ever has the child on the date of filing or who was the primary caretaker on the date of filing. The courts just freeze the current arrangement in place. A presumption is nothing more than "pre-judging" or prejudice, pure and simple. Unfortunately, this predjudice is so extreme that it defies the usual treatment for presumptions in courts.... when any competent evidence is brought forth, then the presumption is abandoned and a completely bias free examination of the facts is then accomplished. The only purpose of a presumption for the rest of the law is the serve as a starting place, not a nearly unsurmountable obstacle that is designed to be impossible to overcome in order to transfer custody or make alternate custody arrangements. Thus, the family law courts have decided to make their job easy by invoking presumptions aka predjudice against a particular party because the courts have decided not to conduct a searching inquiry into a matter. Complicating matters further is the fact that there is almost always someone in the family law court throwing out enormous lies of extraordinary proportions. In fact, it seems that if a lie is big enough, it is presumed to be the truth because, after all, nobody would lie about "that" .. ranging from abuse, molestation to you name it. The courts have taken the approach that if an amazing allegation is made, then they will take the path of supposed safety towards the children and just assume it is the truth. In many cases and years later, when the courts, lawyers and legions of experts have finally come to the conclusion that no abuse has occured and one of the spouses had lied about everything, what do the courts do? Do they throw the offending spouse in jail when the child psych experts universally conclude that the other spouse who had been cut completely off from his/he child during the kangaroo court investigation? nope. The courts yawn at the amazing perjury and laugh off the suggestion that the lying ex spouse be forced to pay all of the legal bills and a change of custody is warranted. no, lying, perjury and other such misdeeds have been proven to be a wonderful way to exacting successful revenge on an ex spouse with no repercussions whatsoever. So, under this system, you should plan on making the biggest set of lies imaginable, and you will not only destroy your ex spouse, but you might even get away with custody. It is said that if you tell your children enough times there is a monster under the bed, they will believe you. After all, you are their parent... why wouldn't they? What happens during this whole mess if your ex spouse decided to get remarried and then force your child to call that person "mommy" or "daddy"? Do the courts recognize the damage that will be done when the ex spouse gets his/her second divorce and the second "mommy/daddy" is gone forever without any child support or otherwise obligation? nope. they got the right to be called that, then skipped town -- with the children wondering who will be their next mommy/daddy and when they will abandon them without any responsibility whatsoever.

The only way to counter the first to file system is to make up amazing lies or to take advantage of the system and lie in wait to file your divorce suit when your spouse makes a big mistake or you start taping the other person to catch them in lies etc. Is this the kind of system that makes any sense in a civilized society which cares for the children and recognizes that what is in the best intersts of the family is what is normal, not the narrow vision of what is in the best intersts of the child. That has never worked in the history of human psychology, and will not work today.

The bottom line is that shared physical and legal custody as a presumption with both parties, and whoever screws it up loses custody and might just get visitation taken away is the way to go. This will correct a number of problems. First, men/women stay in horribly abusive relationships with their spouses because they know full well they will lose most of their contact/relationship with their children when a divorce is filed and they have been setup by the living arrangements contrived by a smart spouse seeking to dump the other, lack money to protect their relationship with their children or are afraid of the other spouse who will go bezerk if cut off from their children. If shared custody is guaranteed, then the second sexual revolution will occur where men/women are no longer desperately dependent on a capricous spouse to stay in relationships just to make sure they have relationships with their children. Second, there will be a big dis-incentive for people to act like fools after the divorce occurs. Right now, courts only enforce child support monetary obligations and pretend that visitation and the relationship between non-custodial parents and their children are completely unimportant or not worth bothering with. The result is that custodial parents end up using their power as custodial parents to conduct a terror campain on their ex spouse, usually motivated by a desire for revenge that has blinded them to the damage that is done to the children.

Bottom line is that the current system is extremely broken and social scientists have noted the extraordinary increase in juvenile crime and adolescent/adult life dysfunction that is generated from these trainwreck messes, which the courts only make worse through idiotic application of presumptions and status quo setups.

It is even more interesting when one considers that if a party intervenes in a situation, such as trying to rescue someone, if you make the situation worse by your intervention, you are legally responsibile for the increased damage due to your incompetent attempt at assistance. Are the courts responsible for when they make things worse through blundering ignorance, attorney/barrister misconduct or indifference by judges? They have a duty to make the best choices, and their results have been universally decried as creating deep pools of misery that have life long consequences on all parties... the exception being the judges and lawyers who profit at the expense of the children.

Even more interesting is the idea that if the so called professionals involved in family court were subjected to the scrutiny that doctors and engineers were subjected to in tort/negligence suits, the divorce industry and family law judges would be virtually wiped from the face of the earth due to amazing verdicts from juries that would find case after case of negligence and malpractice. I find it grimly amusing that the courts could not stand up to the same scrutiny and standards that they demand from other professions. It is the height of hypocrisy to demand one standard of behavior from citizens, but be entirely incapable and unwilling to be held responsible for their own misdeeds and disasters.

A complete overhaul of the basic instutition of divorce and child custody is needed before yet another generation has their childhood wrecked for little gain.

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[> Re: The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents -- Ann Jordan, 02:34:56 07/02/04 Fri

I also lost my 2 daughters to my ex-husband and have since remarried and had 2 more children (both boys). The courts have been charging me interest on my arrears while I informed them that I was unable to work, firstly due to high risk pregnancies and then due to financial hardship - WORKING COSTS MONEY! (ie. daycare, second vehicle, etc.) My current husband works 2 jobs to try and support me and the 2 boys and also helps me pay my support when he can but my arrears is growing. I tried to get a Review and Adjust from the support agency but, after 2 years of waiting and contacting them for an answer, they denied it saying I must provide proof of applying at 5 jobs per week until I find employment. I've explained to them that I have 2 more children to support and take care of but they don't care.

My case is taking place in Wisconsin. I recently signed the Non-custodial Parent petition online at http://www.petitiononline.com/usncpr/petition.html in hopes that someone will help me and change the system all together for other moms and dads who have remarried and want a new family.

My plan is to contact some other organizations that might be able to help me be able to stay home with my 2 boys. My 2 daughters only get to see me every third weekend. My oldest daughter has been talked out of coming to my home and hasn't spent visitation with me in over 4 years.

To my knowledge, my ex,who is remarried also, is collecting support from me while his new wife is collecting support from her ex as well as alimony and they operate their own business. They frequently leave my 2 daughters home alone while they go out making money and then buy my daughters things like computers, horses, kitties, dogs, video games and all kinds of gifts to keep them from wanting to live with me - and it's still working.

My ex-husband had the opportunity to work out a share placement arrangement with me so that neither of us would have to pay support to the other. But apparently he wanted the money instead of what was in the best interest of our children and the courts simply gave him everything he asked for. And, yes, he said every lie about me in court he could think of to get it.

I would never wish divorce on my worst enemy - if I had one. Maybe I'm divorced from him.

Sincerely,
Ann Jordan
Wisconsin, US

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[> [> Re: The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents -- Cherl , South Carolina, 18:34:24 09/04/04 Sat

It is so nice to know I'm not a bad parent like I was starting to make myself believe. Almost 5 years ago, I lost custody to my ex on all 3 of our children. He also lied. He told me he wanted a divorce because he didn't love me anymore...eventually, we agreed upon a non-contested divorce. When I arrived at court, he had a lawyer and was saying I abandoned him and the kids and that I was mentally and physically abusive to the the children. I was so devastated. I have been ever since. I pay him child support and obey my court order, of course he has total disregard for it. I have been trying to hold in contempt for 4 years now. There are times that he will not let me talk to or see our kids for months at a time. He has remarried also and added to more kids to their family.....now I pay more child support because he has more mouths to feed as he put it to me. He was awarded more child support. He owns his own business which he has moved to a town 30 minutes away. He does'nt lack for money and definitly does not need child support, but I do it, even when I don't get to see my children...I have yet to remember or understand where and why and how I lost custody of my children. It's depressing.

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[> [> [> Re: The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents - a Father's story in Virginia/Maryland -- Ed, 09:46:28 09/18/04 Sat

I've been reading these entries and replies herein while in search of answers for paternal Fathers like me who are non-custodial parents, and finding few, except the proverbial: "...legal system is flawed...," etc.

I too am a victim of a legal bias against non-custodial parents, myself a Father now excluded from any physical contact with my 14 year-old son's life by a attorney Ex-wife. She knows I can only contest her failure to provide consent ordered physical visitation and phone access in a contempt suit I can't afford to initiate, and I pay my MD child support electronically without fail on a monthly basis since 1998 Divorce.

Even the Montgomery County court appointed attorney claimed in a letter she is powerless to help me obtain visitation since there is no active motion in court on denied visitation...the courts presume that legally once child support is paid, non-custodial parents will receive legally entitled visitation automatically, and there are no County or state court mechanisms to help enforce the rights of non-custodial parents.

I too was forced in court to give up joint custody in 1998 owing to my imminent overseas deployment into combat while on active duty with the armed forces, and now am feeling the loss of fathering my son years later in a lop-sided legal situation I'm powerless to change. It's a shame congress, state and local governments don't accord more tax dollars to solving the broken home problems and single-parent decay of children resulting from inability of non-custodial parents, regardless of sex, to have a meaningful role in their childrens' lives, just because of vindictive sole-guardian parents bias and inaction in the civil courts.

I feel for all those sentiments expressed herein, regardless of the gender of the non-custodial parent as I'm one too. The social and legal system in these regards does need repair and revision.

Ed M Sept 2004
Virginia

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[> [> [> [> Re: The Rights of Non-Custodial Parents - a Father's story in Virginia/Maryland -- Peter Ashlock (Perpetual irritation), 19:28:02 04/09/12 Mon

I'm with you. My case is over 25 years old, the kids are grown and I still am being stigmatized and harassed by the DSHS Child Support people in Washington State where my ex kidnapped my children to and they protected her, telling her only to "not do it again" when I complained.
You are right, non custodial parents are assumed to be villains and treated like criminals. They of course deny that they do that, but the preponderance of experience is with people like us who did not choose the situation and if we had the money to contest the situation they would petition for an increase in payments and demand to know where the money came from. They act like pit bulls with their teeth around your neck.
I'd like to start a national petition to pressure the various state governments to change the archaic and mean spirited pseudo laws that criminalize without charging.

>I've been reading these entries and replies herein
>while in search of answers for paternal Fathers like
>me who are non-custodial parents, and finding few,
>except the proverbial: "...legal system is flawed...,"
>etc.
>
>I too am a victim of a legal bias against
>non-custodial parents, myself a Father now excluded
>from any physical contact with my 14 year-old son's
>life by a attorney Ex-wife. She knows I can only
>contest her failure to provide consent ordered
>physical visitation and phone access in a contempt
>suit I can't afford to initiate, and I pay my MD child
>support electronically without fail on a monthly basis
>since 1998 Divorce.
>
>Even the Montgomery County court appointed attorney
>claimed in a letter she is powerless to help me obtain
>visitation since there is no active motion in court on
>denied visitation...the courts presume that legally
>once child support is paid, non-custodial parents will
>receive legally entitled visitation automatically, and
>there are no County or state court mechanisms to help
>enforce the rights of non-custodial parents.
>
>I too was forced in court to give up joint custody in
>1998 owing to my imminent overseas deployment into
>combat while on active duty with the armed forces, and
>now am feeling the loss of fathering my son years
>later in a lop-sided legal situation I'm powerless to
>change. It's a shame congress, state and local
>governments don't accord more tax dollars to solving
>the broken home problems and single-parent decay of
>children resulting from inability of non-custodial
>parents, regardless of sex, to have a meaningful role
>in their childrens' lives, just because of vindictive
>sole-guardian parents bias and inaction in the civil
>courts.
>
>I feel for all those sentiments expressed herein,
>regardless of the gender of the non-custodial parent
>as I'm one too. The social and legal system in these
>regards does need repair and revision.
>
>Ed M Sept 2004
>Virginia

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