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| Subject: Some songs | |
Author: Jim (Canada) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 18:32:23 12/06/04 Mon In reply to: Steph (U.S.) 's message, "Patriotic Songs" on 17:18:55 12/06/04 Mon Advance Australia Fair, Waltzing Mathilda, O Canada, The Maple Leaf Forever, God Defend New Zealand, Scotland The Brave, Flower Of Scotland, Danny Boy, Land Of Our Fathers [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Songs... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:35:00 12/06/04 Mon The Irish Unionist Alliance site has many songs from across the Commonwealth on it. They advocate UK-Ireland reunification, an idea even more pie in the sky than ours, one might say. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: But... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:41:38 12/06/04 Mon I can't help but notice that the words for "advance Australia fair" on that website are rather different from those sung at the Olympics a few years ago... "From England, Ireland, Scottia's Isle..." I think not! A lot of business about being young and free, as I recall, and about as much mention of the component parts of the UK as the Ukranian national anthem... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: we are young and free of memory, to be specific | |
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Author: Ian (Terra Australis (relatively) Incognita) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:09:50 12/06/04 Mon [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Waltzing Matilda | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:24:39 12/06/04 Mon I was interested to learn recently that the great Australian marching song, probably the best marching song that any empire ever had, "Waltzing Matilda", was in fact derived from a late-17th / early-18th Century army recruiting song in the South of England. It was during the War of the Spanish Succession in the early years of the century and went something like: "A gay fusilier was marching down through Rochester, Bound for the War in the Low Country, And he cried as he tramped through the dear streets of Rochester, 'Who'll be a soldier for Marlborough with me? 'Who'll be a soldier, who'llbe a soldier, who'll be a soldier For Marlborough with me?' And he cried as he tramped through the dear streets of Rochester, 'Who'll come a-soldiering for Marlborough with me?'" When A.B. 'The Banjo' Patterson first performed his new version with the 'Waltzing Matilda' words in the North Gregory Hotel at Winton in Queensland (I believe that a plaque on the pub there marks the spot), he seemed completely unaware that he was putting new words to an ancient 17th Century tune, and in fact stolidly denied the fact that he had ever heard the original. It seems to me something of an epic coincidence that he should have written, on his own, a song exactly identical to a very popular tune of the previous century. Further evidence, I should think, of our inextrcably linked heritage, and also of the fact that one should never trust a folk-singer. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: I had no idea about that | |
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Author: Ian (convict land) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:12:17 12/06/04 Mon I can't quite fathom how people could seriously suggest that a folk song about a suicidal sheep stealer should be a contender for the role of national anthem. Even in Australia. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: "and his ghost may be heard as you pass by that billabong" | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:17:11 12/06/04 Mon What exactly is the story behind Waltzing Wotsit? I know that there's some popsy called Matilda involved, but beyond that I'm in the dark. Mind you, the version which they play on Tony Hancock's "Emigration" episode is most stirring... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: the story | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:49:45 12/06/04 Mon 1. bloke steals sheep, stuffs it out of sight in large bag and puts billy on to make tea 2. owner of sheep appears with three members of the constabulary 3. bloke drowns himself in billabong rather than be taken alive 4. ghost reputed to make periodic appearances at billabong God knows what Matilda has to do with it all, but she doesn't make an appearance in the tale. No actual waltzing occurs either (at least not in the Viennese sense of the term) [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Bonza, mate... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:55:02 12/06/04 Mon Sounds great. Remind me to become a sheep-rustler one of these days. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Matilda | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:49:34 12/18/04 Sat I am reliably informed (by my father) that Matilda was a euphemism for the product of the swagman's poaching... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: "the story" | |
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Author: Andrew (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 07:18:33 12/23/04 Thu I actually believe, or so I was told, that to Waltz ones Matilda was to hike, or walk around. Sort of like to be nomadic. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Waltzing Matilda | |
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Author: David (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 07:08:29 12/19/04 Sun I agree with you, I cringe every time I hear it. Having said that, the present Australian anthem is hardly desirable, as one letter in the SMH recently put it, no anthem with the word "girt" in it deserves any respect! Why they replaced God Save the Queen with that disgraceful anthem is beyond me, although the prospect of Waltzing Matilda is far worse. I would probably prefer the satire sung by English cricket tourists "We shagged Matilda"! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: more letters | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:35:40 12/19/04 Sun My father had a letter published in the SMH on the same topic: "To call that maudlin song an anthem is ridiculous." [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Back in the UK? | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:18:41 12/21/04 Tue How about a modern twist - taking an old 1950's rock 'n roll song 'Back in the USA' by Chuck Berry and redoing it as 'Back in the UK' Here is 'Back in the USA': Oh well oh well I feel so good today We just touched ground on an international runway Jet-propelled back home from overseas to the USA New York, Los Angeles Oh how I yearn for you Detroit, Chicago, Chattanooga, Baton Rouge God I long to be at my home back in old St Lou Did I miss the skyscrapers Did I miss the long freeway From the coast of California To the shores of the Delaware Bay You can bet your life I did Till I got back to the USA Looking hard for a drive-in Searching for a corner cafe Where hamburgers sizzle on an open grill night and day Yeah, and the jukebox jumping with records back in the USA I'm so glad I'm living in the USA Yes I'm so glad I'm living in the USA Anything you want we got it right here in the USA Ah we're so glad we're living in the USA Yes we're so glad we're living in the USA Anything you want we got it right here in the USA Ah we're so glad We're so glad Ah we're so glad We're so glad Here is my attempt to rewrite it as 'Back in the UK': Oh well oh well I feel so good today We just touched ground on an international runway Jet-propelled back home from overseas to the UK London, Edinburgh, Oh how I yearn for you Cardiff, Belfast, Manchester, Birmingham God I long to be at my home back on Yorkshire moors Did I miss the countryside Did I miss the fast motorway From the Highlands of Scotland To the shores of Portsmouth's Bay You can bet your life I did Till I got back to the UK Looking hard for a pub Searching for a fish 'n chip shop Watching the football on telly all night and day Yeah, and the jukebox jumping with records back in the UK I'm so glad I'm living in the UK Yes I'm so glad I'm living in the UK Anything you want we got it right here in the UK Ah we're so glad we're living in the UK Yes we're so glad we're living in the UK Anything you want we got it right here in the UK Ah we're so glad We're so glad Ah we're so glad We're so glad I am open to improvements on this! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Improvements? | |
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Author: Johnny Lennon and Paul McCartney [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:58:57 12/21/04 Tue Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC Didn't get to bed last night On the way the paper bag was on my knee Man, I had a dreadful flight I'm back in the USSR You don't know how lucky you are, boy Back in the USSR, yeah Been away so long I hardly knew the place Gee, it's good to be back home Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case Honey disconnect the phone I'm back in the USSR You don't know how lucky you are, boy Back in the US Back in the US Back in the USSR Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out They leave the west behind And Moscow girls make me sing and shout They Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind Oh, come on Hu Hey Hu, hey, ah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah I'm back in the USSR You don't know how lucky you are, boys Back in the USSR Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out They leave the west behind And Moscow girls make me sing and shout They Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind Oh, show me round your snow peaked mountain way down south Take me to you daddy's farm Let me hear you balalaika's ringing out Come and keep your comrade warm I'm back in the USSR Hey, You don't know how lucky you are, boy Back in the USSR Oh, let me tell you honey Chuck Berry can't hold a candle to the Beatles... plus, this version is far more rock and roll. Can someone please come up with Brit lyrics for this? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: How's this? | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:49:08 12/21/04 Tue Flew in from Miami Beach, USA Didn't get to bed last night On the way the paper bag was on my knee Man, I had a dreadful flight I'm back in the UK You know I’m back home to stay, boy Back in the UK, yeah Been away so long I hardly knew the place Gee, it's good to be back home Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case Honey disconnect the phone I'm back in the UK You know I’m back home to stay, boy Back in the UK Back in the UK Back in the UK Well the English girls really knock me out They leave America behind And Scottish girls make me sing and shout Lady Kirk’s always on my my my my my my my my my mind Oh, come on Hu Hey Hu, hey, ah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah I'm back in the UK You know I’m back home to stay, boys Back in the UK Well the English girls really knock me out They leave America behind And Scottish girls make me sing and shout Lady Kirk’s always on my my my my my my my my my mind Oh, show me round your moors and dales way up north Take me to you daddy's farm Let me hear a piper near the Firth of Forth Come and keep your fellow Brit warm I'm back in the UK You know I’m back home to stay, boy Back in the UK Oh, let me tell you honey [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: a distinct improvement | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:49:30 12/21/04 Tue Okay, appallingly bad taste, but here we go: ============================================ Imagine no John Lennon It's easy if you try No geeky "Instant Karma" No whining "Jealous Guy" Imagine that rich wanker Bleeding on the ground Oh oh o o oh You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope you'll join us at the Dakota And don't forget to bring your gun. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Dear oh dear - how could you? | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:33:35 12/21/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Reminds me... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:39:31 12/23/04 Thu ... of a joke which I read once. A migrant worker from Bratislava or somewhere like that was working in one of those awful Beatles-themed places down in Liverpool. He had to listen to Beatles music all day every day, week in, week out, until he developed a determination to find the Beatles and shoot them... until he realised that someone already had. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Don't you mean? | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:50:56 12/23/04 Thu Up in Liverpool... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Nope. | |
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Author: Ed Harris (London) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:01:12 01/06/05 Thu One is only 'up' when one is in Town. Everywhere else is 'down', regardless of geography. It's a Londoner thing! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Hillbilly Music | |
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Author: Steph (U.S.) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:46:39 12/07/04 Tue I enjoyed all of the additional songs that Jim recommended, I found them on the internet and listened and sang along with them. Of course I had heard some of them before O Canada is familiar to most Americans. Scotland the Brave is also a popular bag pipe tune, but it is normally played with gravity at a slower tempo than the recording I found on the net. The net recording also made the pipes and drums sound like the fiddles and drums. This lead me to an interesting and amusing discovery. Rendered at a faster tempo on the fiddles and drums, Scotland the Brave makes excellent American Appalachian Hillbilly Music. Of course in one sense this is not surprising as the Appalachian region was settled by the Scotch-Irish and their accent is the most unchanged of the American speech ways. Still it was startling and amusing to here the evidence with my own ears. Cheers, Steph [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Scots are people, Scotch is Whisky | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:28:40 12/07/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Scotland The Brave | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:01:16 12/07/04 Tue Ah, Scotland the Brave – this is the anthem used for the Scottish team at the Commonwealth Games, and seems to be treated as a big joke by all those who hear it. I’ve always though it was more appropriate for “pass the parcel” than an anthem of sorts. Anyway, it has been replaced by Flower of Scotland as the unofficial anthem at most sporting events. I find this song rather depressing, where we define the achievements of one part of the United Kingdom in terms of giving another part of the United Kingdom a bloody nose. I generally need a stiff whisky after hearing this, to console myself. Others would doubtless celebrate its playing by lunging at the nearest Sassenach they can find. As there have been recent calls for a Scottish anthem, I’ll put it to the floor: What song should be used to represent Scotland at sporting events? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: How about... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:12:32 12/07/04 Tue "The noblest prospect a Scotsman ever sees Is the High Road that takes him to England"? ;-) Seriously, though, Wild Mountain Thyme is pretty good as that sort of thing goes. My trouble with thinking about this sort of thing is that I don't really believe that we should compete in sporting events separately. It seems to me that the only reason why we do is because we invented all these sports, and until the late 19th century Britain was the only place where they were played; consequently, it was impossible to have international games except by having England against Scotland or Ireland etc. However, now that the rest of the world (except for those stubborn Americans and, alas, the Canadians) all play our sports, there's really no need for this historical aberration. Besides, if we all played as Great Britain we might actually stand a chance of winning something... look how well the Lions do. Well, used to... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: You can say goodbye to international rugby, then | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:53:01 12/07/04 Tue If CANZUK ever happens, we would have England (current world champions), Australia (two time world champions) and New Zealand (one time world champions and undisputed gods) all on one team. Against South Africa, France, Ireland, ... Argentina would suddenly be on of the top five teams in the world. No, let's keep things the way they are. Apart from everything else, you will never sell CANZUK to the Kiwis if you say they have to give up their All Blacks. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Interesting thought. | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:12:39 12/07/04 Tue Well, rugby is the sport which has least dissemination outside the Crown Commonwealth. Even with the UK playing as about 76 different counties, the Rugby World Cup was a shorter affair than the soccer or even the cricket world cups. Put Britain as well as Australia and NZ together and you have about 5 teams in the world which really play it. I don't think that this would apply to cricket, since pretty much every Commonwealth country plays that, nor to soccer, since pretty much every country in the world plays that (I wonder why our least interesting sport has been our most successful cultural export?). But my main point was about a United Kingdom team rather than a CANZUK team, which, clearly, would be a bit of a joke. After all, it would just be the Australian team with a new name! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Well, ah... | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:36:59 12/07/04 Tue I too wonder why the whole world took to soccer (I live in Brazil, after all), and I suspect because it is so extremely simple to understand. How people can get so passionate about it is beyond me, though. Ninety minutes watching two groups of men who alternate between trying to pull each other's shirts off and lying on the ground in agony because someone touched them, all of which ends in a scoreless draw? I don't get it. But I must correct you on one point: a CANZUK rugby team would certainly not be an Australian team with another name. In Rugby League, perhaps, but not in Rugby Union. Our two World Cups do not really reflect our place in the world of rugby: we are among the serious players, but not the leader. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: UK Teams | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:51:23 12/07/04 Tue Ian, I agree entirely with your observations on football. It is such a contrast, where in football, if a player should give so much as a cursory glance at an opposition player, they will fall like a sack of potatoes, and roll towards the touch-line as if they were on a 45 degree slope. Rugby players will only leave the field when their vision is impaired by blood-filled eyes. Yes, I’ve always been a proponent of United Kingdom sporting teams (CANZUK team aside for now). I think one of the main reason foreigners misunderstand our national composition is that we are the only country in the world that has such an inconsistent face to the world. We compete as Great Britain at the athletics and motor racing. We compete as England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland at football. We compete as England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland at rugby union. We compete as Great Britain at rugby league. Of course, in the Commonwealth Games, we compete as England/Scotland/Wales/NI/IoM/Jersey/Guernsey/Rockall etc. This is farcical, and I know of no sport where we enter as the United Kingdom. There was talk of the authorities trying to form a GB football team, should London win the Olympic bid in 2012. However, this went down like a lead balloon in Scotland, causing tremors in the West-Highland fault, and people rushing to resurrect Hadrian’s Wall. People here are supposedly very proud of having their own “national” team. This is a team that is subjected to ritual humiliation every time they play. Personally, I would have more pride in being represented by one or two players in a winning team (admittedly we would not provide many at the moment), than having an entire team that serves in making the opposition look good. The same is increasingly true of rugby union too, as professionalism has destroyed the game here. As far as rugby goes, we would only lose one reasonably good team (Wales) as Ireland would continue, so I do not see competition being adversely affected. How many Ulstermen play in the united Ireland team anyway, does anyone know? This would merely reduce the number of cricket-score tallies mounted by Southern-Hemisphere teams when they tour here. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:56:34 12/07/04 Tue I was thinking principally of cricket when I suggested that a CANZUK team would be mostly Australians with perhaps an English batsman. The soccer thing is the same, really. A UK team would be the English team plus Ryan Giggs. This is no ciriticism of Scottish football: perhaps if the top Scots teams were allowed to compete in the English premiership as they should (rather than just winning the Scots Premiership by a 20 point margin every year), then Scots footballers would improve. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: rugby quite popular in Canada | |
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Author: Andrew(Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:28:33 12/07/04 Tue its not true that Canada doesnt play rugby. In fact, at my University(University of Victoria) for those who want to know, rugby is the most popular sport, and one of my friends is a rugger player. we also have a decent football team(real football, not the strange american game). its true we might not be very good compared to the rest of the CANZUK nations, but i believe if a maybe a CANZUK league was set up for rugby and football, Canadians players would increase in skill. also, maybe we could set up a CANZUK hockey and lacrosse leagues...ha, who knows? maybe we can actually get the rest of the CANZUK nations to like it...which makes me wonder...ive always heard that people in the other CANZUK nations think hockey is rubbish...anyone want to comment? (by the way, i believe it was British soldier stationed in Canada that invented the game, if you wanted to know.) [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Nah | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 23:48:36 12/07/04 Tue I didn't know that Rugby was popular in Canada, but I suspect that this is because it has recently started to catch on, rather than being a long-established sport. Am I right? I so rarely am... As for hockey being rubbish, I couldn't disagree more. When I was at school, every fortnight we staggered up the road to the ice-rink at Alexandra Palace, dressed up in the most absurd-looking kit and attempted to play hockey. From experience, I can say that it's one of the hardest things I've ever tried! Conversely, on a couple of occasions we tried the sort of hockey which women play on fields, and I found that both much easier and a thousand times more painful... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Rugby | |
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Author: Andrew(Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:40:59 12/08/04 Wed hockey is very difficult to play on ice...i haven't skated on ice since i was a young child, but i remember trying to play and it was quite hard...as for rugby being a recent trend in Canada....i guess it depends on what you think is recent...my school was established in 1960, and they've been playing since then i believe, and a private rugby club across the street has been around even longer...also, in Victoria(where I live) cricket is fairly popular, mainly among older people, but a fair bit of younger people play as well at the local cricket pitch...we had a tournament here last summer for amateur team, it was pretty neat...i remember being a young boy and going to the pitch with my Granddad and watching they cricket matches...i found it boring then, but its fairly fun to watch now [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Something I never understood until I moved to the UK... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:52:54 12/08/04 Wed Cricket is an odd creature. However much we colonials may play it, I don't believe that we can really understand it until we see it in its original context. I remember, when I was a young lad, getting to know this weird, green and chilly new country, I was taken out of London to the countryside by my parents, and after a long walk we found a village with a pub in it. Opposite the pub was the village green, and as we sipped cider outside a sixteenth century pub and day turned into dusk, the amateur cricketers played on the green: significantly, without even bothering to keep the score - tournament didn't enter into it. When it was too dark to play on they drew stumps and came across to the pub for some Scrumpy and Winkle's Old Peculiar in their grass-stained Whites and smoked pipes. Cricket in RSA just isn't like that - we care who wins. I think that this was the moment when I fell in love with Britain. To quote the bloke, "England, with all thy faults I love thee still." [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: "the sort of hockey which women play on fields" | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:36:55 12/08/04 Wed Being from a country where the temperature never gets low enough to freeze lakes, "hockey" for us always means the one played on grass (or artificial surfaces). It was my favourite sport at school. Australia has something of a tradition of being not bad at hockey. It first became a (men's) Olympic sport at the Melbourne games in 1956, with the women following in 1980, at which Australia didn't compete. The women won gold in 1988, 1996 and 2000, whereas the men only won their first gold this year in Athens, having previously been stuck with three silvers and three bronzes. Great Britain won men's gold in 1988 and bronze in 1984 and women's bronze in 1992. New Zealand picked up men's gold in 1976. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hehe. | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:26:02 12/08/04 Wed I had no intention of calling the manliness of field hockey players into question, I assure you! Any game in which one is liable to be clobbered with large sticks, struck in the face with a ball made out of some species of rock moving at 80 feet per second, and which involves quite so much sprinting as that is quite beyond my ability to be competitive in. All I meant was that, in Blighty, boys' schools play rugger and girls' schools play hockey. I don't know what mixed/co-ed schools play, but I suspect that they probably play Association football and car-stealing. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Federation sports | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:17:29 12/08/04 Wed I don't think the federation should be just about the rest of us adopting British sports - it should be a two way street. We should all adopt hockey (whether ice or road) and Australian Rules Football. If we all played each other's sports, then we will have a true sporting union. I can't see why others cannot learn to play Canadian sports. All members should play soccer, cricket, rugby, hockey, ARF and basketball (invented by a Canadian). [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I agree... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:21:21 12/08/04 Wed Ice Hockey is a fantastic sport. I used to have a local team (Ayr Scottish Eagles) that I followed briefly a few years ago. Sadly, the team owner absconded with the funds and they, alas, became bankrupt. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: i dont know... | |
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Author: Andrew(Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:49:16 12/08/04 Wed even if it was invented by a Canadian, i really dont find basketball that entertaining, i know a lot of other people do though...but to me, it seems not quite as exciting as hockey or rugby or football, and it doesn't seem as fast paced [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Australian Football is a brilliant sport | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 00:17:00 12/09/04 Thu Despite a fondness for rugby that goes back to childhood (having grown up in one of the country's two rugby states), I would have to admit that Australian Football is the most spectacular sport in the world to watch. I would love to see it played seriously at international level. Ice hockey is always going to be a big ask in Australia, but we play pretty much everything else. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Including surfing | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:07:19 12/09/04 Thu I like to watch Aussie Rules on Sky Sports 3. It looks rather like 19th Century rugby, with nothing barred except for biting and bottles. It also reminds me a lot of Gaelic football - you know, the type which you don't play with sticks. To be honest, though, I think that it would be illegal in the UK under EEC legislation governing wanton acts of violence. Is there an NZ version? Oy veh, we really need a kiwi member! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Kevin (U.S.) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:26:50 12/09/04 Thu Gaelic football is great fun. Hurling is also quite fun to play, once you get the hang of it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:16:25 12/09/04 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Curling Stones | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:18:24 12/09/04 Thu Did you know that curling stones are made from granite carved from this small island off the Ayrshire coast, called Ailsa Craig? I like to watch the sun set over it on a good day...   [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:57:05 12/09/04 Thu Do you mean that ALL curling stones are carved out of this island, in the same way that all cricket bats must be carved from English willow? If so, we must pray that curling does not become a popular international sport on the scale of soccer, or yet another one of our beautiful islands will be lost, being totally removed in order to allow people to push rocks across ice with broom-sticks. I understand that a pretty British island has recently been declared uninhabitable, because most of it has been removed to build Egyptian luxury hotels. This is discouraging in a way, but encouraging in another: our commericial genius can not have left us completely if we are able to sell sand to Egypt on such an impressive scale. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:14:30 12/09/04 Thu Nowadays, Ailsa Craig is no longer inhabited, and has become is a bird sanctuary. It is a home to puffins amongst other things. However, between 60-70% of curling stones in existence in the world, are said to have been fashioned from Ailsa granite. The island is volcanic, and is a unique point of geological interest in my local area. However, there is a far more beautiful island off the Ayshire coast called Arran. I like nothing better than to walk along the beach on a summer evening and watch the sun set over it. I have photographed it many times. These are not mine however… Summer  Winter  [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:23:49 12/09/04 Thu Met a bloke from Arran the other day. He said it was beautiful but dead. Reminds me of dear old Venice. Seriously, though, I think we're lucky to live in such beautiful places, but would be misguided to stay there permanently... ...as for walking along the beach and watching sunsets, I imagine that Ayshire is probably the oldest place to do so after La Serenissima... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:28:40 12/09/04 Thu Arran has been taken over by retired people. It's a nice island, often called Scotland in miniature. However, I prefer to look at it from afar. I go cycling there quite a lot though... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Curnoack [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:25:54 01/07/05 Fri "I go cycling there quite a lot though..." Is that so that you can escape the lynch mob of angry Scots at home? Lynch David, as opposed to David Lynch... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 00:30:38 01/08/05 Sat It's to escape parochial nationalism really... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Aussie (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 05:58:18 01/06/05 Thu >maybe we could set up a CANZUK hockey and lacrosse leagues...ha, who knows? maybe we can actually get the rest of the CANZUK nations to like it...< well with CANZUK maybe Australia and Canada could finally win the lacrosse world title back off the USA. 2 of the 3 lacrosse superpowers merged, oh i like that thought. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I can't think of a song that represents just England | |
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Author: Jim (Canada) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:57:02 12/07/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Jerusalem? | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:21:56 12/07/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Jerusalem? | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:52:16 12/19/04 Sun Any song that needs to pretend that Jesus crossed the English Channel and that rebuilding a middle-eastern capital on a cricket pitch is a worthwhile social goal could safely be excluded from the category of "representing just England". You could as easily argue that "Penny Lane" describes the Darfur crisis, I would have thought. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:11:03 12/19/04 Sun Well, I think that, notwithstanding the barmy British Israelitism (which still persists), there's a lot of spiritualism in Blake's work which deserves closer evaluation. The idea of building Jerusalem is not an exhortation to construct an architectural copy of a rather pleasant city in the Middle East - it's a metaphor for building a spiritually-fulfilled society. Moreover, just as 'Jerusalem' diesn't refer to the city but to the idea, 'England' in the poem doesn't refer to a large part of a group of islands at the end of the North Atlantic storm corridor, either: it's an idea, and, specifically, the idea that, spiritually, England should come to mean what Jerusalem once meant - the passing of the torch, so to speak, from God's previous chosen people to his new chosen people. There is also an argument that the "dark satanic mills" bit refers to the grim and dehumanising factories of the Industrial Revolution, and, basically, how Blake didn't like them very much. Personally, I don't buy that interpretation, and rather think that he was going on about Stonehenge and all that sort of neolithic rubbish which clutters up our countryside. Lastly, Jesus turning up in Cornwall with his tin-trading Uncle Joseph can also be seen metaphorically: light and civilisation coming to a barbarous land. It would be difficult to argue that Britain at the time of Caesar Augustus was not a pretty backwards kind of place, and it would be difficult to argue that Britain at the time when Blake wrote the poem (1804) was not a pretty sophisticated kind of place. Clearly, something had changed, and the idea of a 'visitation' from a carpenter from the Holy Land could be seen as a reminder that the impetus which impelled us from barbarism to civilisation in fact came from abroad. I would tend to agree with this. No, I'm a great fan of 'Jerusalem', and Parry's tune is great, too. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: "As the plow follows words, so God rewards prayers" | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:20:37 12/20/04 Mon Blake is certainly dangerously visionary, or if you prefer, spiritual. I would not exclude "barmy British Israelitism" from being among his intentions, but that he is one of the best poets in English since Milton, no challenge. "One Law for the Lion & Ox is Oppression" You nominated "Jerusalem" as a song that "represents just England", but if you argue that the song is not really about the geographical England but rather the idea of "passing of the torch ... from God's previous chosen people to his new chosen people", doesn't that rather detract from its representativeness? In the United States, "Jerusalem" would probably fit in quite nicely as just one more example of the doctrine of "Manifest Destiny". It's odd, in a way, that Blake was seen as such an eccentric in England, because the whole Swedenborg school of thought that was such an influence on him (and which he claimed to despise) was quite commonplace on the other side of the Atlantic. I'd be intrigued to know how you back up the view that the "dark satanic mills" are not actual Industrial Revolution mills but stone circles. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:37:07 12/20/04 Mon Well, I would say that it represents not the physical lump of rock which is England but the idea of the Perfect England. Manifest destiny is not universal if one believes that only one people has that manifest destiny. I do not think that Cromwell, Milton, Blake and the American Anglo-Saxonists thought that God (he's always involved somewhere) looked equally as favourably on the French or Patagonians as he did on the British. As for the High Romantic anti-industrialism of Blake, which many use as the basis for their belief that "dark satanic mills" is a poke at the ghastly conditions of early-industrial work-places, I would disagree with that for a very simple reason. In short, the context is right off. This poem is about religion, not social deprivation. If old wossisname, Jesus, was schlepping around the West Country with Joseph of Arimathea, the religious institutions which he encountered would have been pagan, and hence satanic in Blake's opinion, rather than Christian. The idea of British Israelitism is that the Britons were converted personally by Jesus as the First Church of God, rather than converted by the papist Romans centuries later, which is why We Are God's Chosen People and all that nonsense. So, for me, the 'dark satanic mills' have always been the pre-Christian druidic shrines which retreated before the "countenance divine" shining on them and dispelling myth and ignorance. Still, old Blake has been dead for some time, so we can never ask him if I'm right; and, indeed, even if he were very much alive he was probably too bonkers to be able to give a coherent answer... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: let's not fall into the trap of believing that "satanic" is the same as "bad" for Blake | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:17:48 12/20/04 Mon "The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at liberty when of Devils & Hell, is because he was a true Poet and of the Devil's party without knowing it." Marriage of Heaven and Hell, plate 6 "Messiah or Satan or Tempter was formerly thought to be one of the Antediluvians who are our Energies." Marriage of Heaven and Hell, plate 17 "Energy is Eternal Delight." Marriage of Heaven and Hell, plate 4 To say that the mills are "satanic" does not therefore mean that they are "bad". They are a manifestation of energy, and thus a source of delight. "Where man is not, nature is barren." Marriage of Heaven and Hell, plate 10 [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:06:02 12/20/04 Mon I'm off to Britain this afternoon, so I'll tell you if I spot any satanic mills or if I am overpowered by a sense of Manifest Destiny on the runway... That said, Stansted Airport is not noted for its spiritual uplift. A bassa Venezia! Forza Inghilterra! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject:  Jerusalem& my thesis
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Author: Magda (Poland) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:50:04 01/06/05 Thu Hi, I have a great request to all of you. Do you have some more infos, maybe all essay, about British israelitism, New Jerusalem etc? It's a topic of my piece of work but it's hard to find anything reasonable in all internet. I would be lifelongly greatful. Bisses [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Cześć | |
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Author: Ed Harris (London) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:07:16 01/06/05 Thu I suggest that you have a look at the book. "Origins of the British Israelites: The Lost Tribes" by O.Michael Friedman. Powodzenia... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
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Author: Ed Harris (London) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:33:19 01/06/05 Thu There's a delightfully barmy book by old Rutherford called "Israel-Britain", which I think was published in the 1930s. http://www.artisanpublishers.com/cgi-bin/ARTstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=BS00274 [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |