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| Subject: Perhaps indirectly | |
Author: Paddy (Scotland) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 19:43:33 11/16/04 Tue In reply to: Ian (Australia) 's message, "Has anyone heard of Universitas 21?" on 14:13:57 11/15/04 Mon When I was at Edinburgh my tutor, who was running an inter-diciplinary group within the University, used to visit Singapore on University buisness quite often considering the distance. Perhaps this had something to do with it? Whenever the CANZUK countries are looked at there are always highly visible similarities between them. It is quite normal for them to work together. Personally, I would be very happy with Singapore joining the F.C. as a full member (and Hong Kong - if we hadn't given it away to an evil Communist govenment in exchange for a piece of paper "guaranteeing" its status!). What do the contributers to this forum think of this idea in principal? The advantages: Great wealth, Strategic location (for both trade and military purposes) The disadvantages: High gap between rich and poor Population could be considered alien from the point of view that CANZUK are "culturally Christian" while Sing is Islamic. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: If we go monarchy, what will happen to them? | |
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Author: Roberdin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:06:51 11/16/04 Tue [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: no | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:13:33 11/16/04 Tue Singapore is not part of the crown commonwealth, so I say forget about them. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Hm. | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:20:29 11/16/04 Tue I'm a great Singaporephile. I don't know why it isn't still a member of the Crown Commonwealth, since the ties to Britain are very strong there. Half the population of the city were educated at British universities, and significant numbers of leading citizens at Raffles. The financial elites of London and Singapore are virtually interchangeable. They send us nurses, we send them fund managers. There are cetainly more Singaporeans in Britain than Australians, I would say. Also, the Lion City has given us Singapore Slings, and so should be rewarded accordingly... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: And... | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 02:03:12 11/17/04 Wed If you look at eBay items which are listed as "Location - Singapore", about half of them have "United Kingdom" in brackets afterwards. For example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4092&item=2286205017&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW A skein of loyalism there, d'you think? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Thats if you go anywhere...which it doesn't seem to be | |
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Author: Arthur [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:22:27 11/17/04 Wed Its more like a school boys fantasy at the moment. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Have some patience! | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:35:57 11/17/04 Wed How quickly do you think an idea can catch on? We aren't talking about a fad, we are talking about millions of people recognising that they actually have important cultural links that go beyond the divisions that we have learned to think of as "countries". That takes time. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: The fact they are Islamic is not a negative for me | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:49:50 11/16/04 Tue In fact, their being Asian and largely Islamic while also being substantially British would be an extremely important indication that what we are proposing is not a white club or a Christian club. Australia already has a free trade agreement with Singapore, by the way. Pity they ditched the crown, of course. Makes things that much more tricky. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Absolutely! | |
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Author: Ed Harris (London) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:26:23 11/17/04 Wed I think that their Islamic-Asiatic character would add something to the FC, not detract from it. Moreover, the work ethic in Singapore, if introduced to Britain, could only be of the most advantageous economic impact! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: not yet | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 08:27:07 11/17/04 Wed I dont think we should start engaging nations from outside the crown commonwealth yet. Perhaps singapore could join after the Crown commonwealth is united. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: Owain, we are not in the position of "engaging nations" | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:39:43 11/17/04 Wed We are a group of people trying to get an idea out on the streets. Part of that process involves refining exactly what the idea is. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: yes yes | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:43:16 11/17/04 Wed Yes yes I know that. What I mean is is that Singapore should not yet be inlcuded on our planned "to federate" list. For the moment I believe we should restrict ourselves to the crown commonwealth. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Why? | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 21:10:31 11/17/04 Wed [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: What I mean is, ... | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:01:51 11/17/04 Wed ... given that the entire focus of our discussion is on CANZUK precisely because of the 'britishness' these four countries have in common, and given that 'britishness' is frequently misunderstood as being a 'racial' category, why should we not make it clear that a country such as Singapore would be an ideal candidate **IF** the federation ever gets off the ground **AND** if they happened to be interested? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Monarchy | |
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Author: Roberdin [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:14:14 11/17/04 Wed At present, the reintegration of four realms under a single monarch is not difficult. Assuming that we choose to keep that monarch as our head of state - which I certainly hope we do - then including a republic back will be an uphill struggle. Republicanism is nowdays a one-way street. Much like entering hell. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Fiji seems to be considering a return from "hell" | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:51:36 11/17/04 Wed I do, however, agree with you both that it cannot be a simple thing to convince a republic to return to the monarchy. Of course, it will also not be simple to convince CANZUK citizens to want federation. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: All that was left of them.... | |
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Author: Nick (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 12:22:50 11/19/04 Fri There are examples of returning from a Republic - mostly historical, of course, like the Netherlands, but also more recent like Spain in 1976. There are serious restoration movements in some eastern European countries, Russia and France, though I'm not sure any will be successful. Certainly not the French one. The Cook Islands and New Zealand Maoris both claim they would seek their own independent constitutional monarchies in the event of a New Zealand Republic, though this has yet to be tested. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: monarchism in eastern europe | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:43:06 11/19/04 Fri Nick, monarchism in Eastern Europe is going very well, especially in Bulgaria where CP Mr. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is Prime Minister, a similar tactic to what they are trying in Romania. A restoration of the Serb Monarchy was debated in 1999 when considering the fate of the former republic of Yugoslavia, even those with ideolgical problems with it addmitted they would be willing to look past it as a way of burying the past. I wish them all the bets of luck and support. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: France | |
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Author: Paddy (Scotland) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 18:39:24 11/19/04 Fri Well at least in France a pro-Orleanist coup/putch would perhaps appeal to masses somewhat. "Who did you vote for - the Crook or the Facist? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject:  De Bourbons
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 01:44:04 11/20/04 Sat The last of the De Bourbons is a young drunken Lesbian of immense personal charm. We were once the only two men on a party trip to Paris. I always thought that this would be an impediment to a royalist recrudescence, but now that I think of France as it is, it seems more and more plausible! [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I've even met Brazilian monarchists | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 13:58:33 11/19/04 Fri But then I've also met Brazilian rugby players, who have a marginally greater chance of being taken seriously. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Os Rei Brasiliero | |
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Author: Ed Harris (Venezia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 14:24:48 11/19/04 Fri Didn't the Portuguese monarchy try to keep going in Brazil after the establishment of the Republic in Lisbon - and with some support in Brazil? I vaguely recall reading about the Crown Prince being encouraged to overthrow the authority of his father in Brazil and to make himself king there. It sounds rather like Franklin and Jefferson and all those herberts inviting the Prince Regent to come over and be the king of an independent America. Moreover, I don't think that this is unique. I think that is has happened several times in Asian monarchies. Pre-British India was replete with members of the royal family setting themselves up as Emperors in provinces of the Mughal Empire, and the rulers of the Kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden all share common ancestry in the emperors of the Scandinavian Empire, later the Swedish Empire. Perhaps, then, a return to monarchy in Brazil is not entirely implausible. But as for their rugby team, it just goes to show that furriners shouldn't play Commonwealth sports - I rage impotently when I hear about the Dutch cricket team and Italian rugby teams. If everyone else starts to play our sports, then it dilutes one of key cultural areas which highlights our common origins and makes our relationship special. We can hardly say, "Oo look, we all play Rugby but no-one else does, which indicates our close cultural ties", when Japan and Georgia, with which we have no historical links, are playing too. This may be a peculiar and, let's not deny it, stupid attitude, but it's mine and I'm sticking with it... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The Brazilian Empire lasted from 1822 to 1889 | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 15:18:15 11/19/04 Fri It was founded by young Pedro, who declared "liberty or death" by the banks of the Ipiranga River, basically because he didn't want to go back to Europe after the Napoleonic threat was over. The monarchy was abolished by a military coup in 1889, an event which is celebrated each year on November 15, even by people vigorously opposed to other military coups, such as the one in 1964. When the most recent dictatorship ended in the 1980s, there was a referendum do determine whether Brazilians wanted an executive president, a prime minister or a king. The monarchy option scored single figures, as I recall. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |