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• Re: A Bad Way to Lose ; Agree it was our lack of intensity that really frustrated me. We started slowly were careless in posession and frankly caused our own problems. Far too many players well below par, missed Willian badly he was so much composure on the ball. I actually thought Liverpool were pretty average and we gave them the game. We have been and are so much better than that. (NT) -- Honest, Tuesday, April 23, 11:02:03am (NoHost/185.69.145.166)

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• Yes, never once did we get up a head of steam, bar perhaps the last few minutes of the first half when it was a bit better, we didn't seem much bothered, which is especially disappointing as we were playing such a disgusting club and followers... but comforting that they deserve each other, and we now have plenty of time to fumigate our beautiful ground...... (NT) -- Rupert, Tuesday, April 23, 11:03:13am (02dc9282.bb.sky.com/2.220.146.130)

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• Disgusting club and followers ?? WTF you talking about ? (NT) -- Ted, Tuesday, April 23, 12:47:35pm (0.red-83-59-52.dynamicip.rima-tde.net/83.59.52.0)
  • Do you really need it spelt out for you. Most of world football hates Liverpool FC (NT) -- Carter, Tuesday, April 23, 05:51:21pm (NoHost/79.173.173.66)
    • Could you point out where this information is available about the world's dislike of Liverpool? Thanks. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Tuesday, April 23, 06:22:04pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)
      • They have possibly the most vile supporters in the country. There's always trouble when they come to town. (NT) -- El Pato, Tuesday, April 23, 11:47:30pm (bcde14d9.skybroadband.com/188.222.20.217)
        • Was there any trouble from them on Sunday? (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Wednesday, April 24, 12:11:29pm (NoHost/31.94.24.37)
      • Tragedy follows them like an ugly shadow. Always the victims. Dont know many football supporters who dont hate the scousers more than their local rivals. (NT) -- Carter, Wednesday, April 24, 02:13:33pm (NoHost/79.173.173.66)
        • Are you still believing all those original Sun newspaper and West Yorkshire Police slurs and lies? I don't understand why you and some others continue to believe something in spite of all the subsequent evidence disproving it. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 03:25:11pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
          • Let’s try Heysel. (NT) -- HemelRog, Wednesday, April 24, 03:36:39pm (NoHost/31.94.26.88)
            • Same things went on in football grounds up and down this country at that time. Could have been other English teams if they had got to a final at the Heysal. To tarnish modern day Liverpool fans with the same brush is just predjudice. It's like saying Derby are the same as they were in 83, or Spurs fans are the same as they were when they smashed up Rotterdam. Different times, different socio-political factors. You should know these things if you are a proper leftie. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 04:24:28pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
              • Total bullshit used to play up every time they played abroad.Not alonne in that though.Still unpleasant IMO.Who are you to judge proper lefties.. (NT) -- HemelRog, Wednesday, April 24, 05:56:36pm (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                • Did they? Were you there to witness all this supposed bad behaviour, or did you read about it in Murdoch's Sun? I'm guessing from these beliefs that you still hang on to that you don't read enough progressive literature. Being on the left of Labour is about developing progressive ideas and values. Your beliefs about Liverpool supporters belong to the last century. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 06:19:07pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                  • HaHa you haven’t a clue what I read.More books in our house than a small library.History,Biography,Autobiography,Music,Films,Novels,Sport,The Enviroment and just about anything else.I wouldn’t wipe my arse on The Sun. (NT) -- HemelRog, Wednesday, April 24, 06:35:02pm (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                    • Of course I haven't got a clue what you read. I only know that you love Fulham FC, hate Liverpool fans and listen to maudling Country music. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 06:59:51pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                      • I don’t hate Liverpool.What pretentious crap do you listen to?Would you call Hank Williams maudling?I would call him a genius. (NT) -- HemelRog, Wednesday, April 24, 07:51:44pm (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                        • Pretentious, Moi? (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 08:42:04pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                          • Ha.OK some sort of electronic.crap.By the way I would take the opinios of Willie,Waylon,Cash,Kristofferson,Crowell,Lovett,Peters,Prine,Townes,Ray Charles,Joan Baez,Solomon Burke,Bonie Prince Billy ,Callahan,Don Everly,Roy Orbison and their ilk when it comes to the songwriting of Newbury.And I thought (or you did)that you were deep thinker. (NT) -- HemelRog, Thursday, April 25, 08:48:16am (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                            • Funnily enough i have never really been receptive to lyrics. I always tune into the rhythm and sounds much more easily. I also find prose difficult to pick up when the delivery is fast. It's just what my brain is more attentive to I suppose. A lot of lyrics are people talking about themselves, which can be a bit boring and self indulgent. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Thursday, April 25, 10:11:20am (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                              • up just to elaborate a bit.Both Hank and Newbury use their personal voices to convey universal truths and predicaments.They somehow sort of turn a negative into something Elle’s.Mickey also wrote great story songs.He is usually found(Ha)in the country section but considered himself a folk singer.Cah called him a poet.A founder of Americana.He said he often wrote his sadness.When he was happy he played golf with James Garner and Willie: (NT) -- HemelRog, Thursday, April 25, 11:55:06am (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                                • Newbury said “If you are going to fcuk them fcuk them in the heart.”He also said “Don’t write what you don’t know boy they’ll know it if you lie.”I understand it’s not everybody’s cup of tea.Or bottle of Wild Turkey.That’s fine and by the way I also listen to quite a bit of blues.Especially Peter Green and the old Chicago guys.Seenmost of them live bank in the day. (NT) -- HemelRog, Thursday, April 25, 12:04:03pm (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                                  • Pretentious Me. (NT) -- HemelRog, Thursday, April 25, 12:08:41pm (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
                                  • I work in my local Oxfam Music Shop once a week. The Manager knows loads music I have never heard of. Just goes to show how much music there is out there, and how little of it enters the mainstream (I dont listen to algorythm driven digital music. Perhaps I should). (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Thursday, April 25, 12:28:56pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                                    • The problem is most mainstream radio stations only play brain candy.You can sometimes hear the odd decent thing on Whispering Bob.You Tube is good these days even for pretty obscure stuff.Once you get into a particular type of music it tends to lead to undiscovered gems. (NT) -- HemelRog, Thursday, April 25, 01:49:17pm (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
              • Scouse scum are certainly not the same as any other club up and down the country.... To this day they're always involved in ticketing issues (never their fault mind). What about Martin Georgiev? Vile club and support base. (NT) -- Carter, Thursday, April 25, 01:54:00pm (NoHost/79.173.173.66)

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• We don't have enough supporters to sell out which is why non supporting Fulham get tickets. Sorry that a child ruined your afternoon. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Tuesday, April 23, 01:31:45pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)

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• Putting a child in a home end when they support the opposition and letting them wear there teams colours is a recipe for disaster. The parent should know better to Han put there child and themselves in danger for no reason . It is like going 70 miles an hour on a country Lane with no seat belts on. (NT) -- Button, Tuesday, April 23, 01:37:18pm (nmal-23-b2-v4wan-169190-cust1261.vm24.cable.virginm.net/80.5.116.238)
  • The Putney End is hardly the home end. If you say there you would know that. Equating a passenger in a car without a seat belt on with a child wearing opposition colours is beyond silly. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Tuesday, April 23, 02:50:27pm (NoHost/31.94.24.37)
    • There are two sections of the Putney End. One is for home supporters, the other is for away supporters, clearly separated by a black tarpaulin which runs the length of the stand. To claim that the home side of it isn't a home section is incorrect. It's against the rules to support the away team in a home section and vice-versa, yet the club does nothing about it. (NT) -- El Pato, Tuesday, April 23, 04:49:32pm (31-221-74-31.cust-31.exponential-e.net/31.221.74.31)
      • I have a season ticket in the Putney End. Their are 4 regulars Fulham supporters behind me and all the other seats around us have different people sitting in them game to game. I can tell most of them are day trippers. Regardless of the rules, so what if a child is wearing the opposite colours? (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Tuesday, April 23, 05:26:35pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)
        • They're in the wrong place and they're showing a total lack of respect to the space they're in and those around them. They should remove their colours and keep a low profile or leave (NT) -- El Pato, Tuesday, April 23, 11:44:53pm (bcde14d9.skybroadband.com/188.222.20.217)
          • You are right by criteria dating back 50 years. There was a previously and Anfield comes to mind. Stood in the enclosure , we celebrated the game's first goal (Clarke) and were assured by surrounding scousers that they remained confident. (Justified). It was all light-hearted, neither daring nor saintly, just what happened outside The Kop or equivalent. But -- this may sound strange today -- it wasn't "neutrality" or indifference. Appreciate this isn't ancient history but pre-history. (NT) -- b+w g., Wednesday, April 24, 09:11:57am (79.52.159.143.dyn.plus.net/143.159.52.79)
            • Actually I'm right by the present day rules. https://www.fulhamfc.com/more/policies/terms-and-conditions/ (NT) -- El Pato, Wednesday, April 24, 10:57:41am (31-221-74-31.cust-31.exponential-e.net/31.221.74.31)
              • Of course you are and so too for decades. But not since time immemorial for what that's worth (not much, unsurprisingly). (NT) -- b+w g., Wednesday, April 24, 11:03:42am (79.52.159.143.dyn.plus.net/143.159.52.79)
              • On Sunday I had to remove the screw top of my plastic water bottle in order to be allowed in at the turnstile. Rules are rules said the friendly stewardess. The bottle would be bound to be knocked over during the game I said to her. Guess what happened? .......Rules...Rules...Rules. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Wednesday, April 24, 12:08:39pm (NoHost/31.94.24.37)
                • So your point is that we should let as many away fans home in sections as possible, because it's in the rules that you can't. Just weird (NT) -- El Pato, Wednesday, April 24, 04:07:44pm (31-221-74-31.cust-31.exponential-e.net/31.221.74.31)
                  • Not the hammy end. I say it doesn't matter in the Putney End where many are day trippers, tourists, etc. I would rather see a seat sold than kept empty. Also, the concourse is not segregated where home and away mix anyway. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Wednesday, April 24, 05:41:11pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)
            • Why did all that territorial nonsence enter football fandom in the 1970's? It had only been 15 - 20 years before that men from different parts of the country had been fighting side by side against the Germans, Italians and Japanese. Also back in the good old days there was solidarity between workers during general strikes. A lot of hooliganism predates Thatcher, so it puzzles me to know what divided young men in the 70's, unless it was the north - south divide in terms of wages. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 02:22:53pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
              • Sorry 25 years since.... (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 02:28:30pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
              • I guess its called tribalism which must have started in the early 60,s when the idea of a group of young men would stand together, singing, chanting, etc. Apparently the East End had territorial battles back in the Victorian days, so its nothing new. Theres always been double tribalism - local and national. When England play now, different supporters seem to find it easy to stand together. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Wednesday, April 24, 02:38:38pm (NoHost/185.111.131.198)
                • There was relative prosperity at the end of the 60's. I guess the rise in oil prices in the early 70's fuelled working class tensions, which spilled over on to the terraces. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 04:31:57pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                  • Your over thinking it Juan. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Wednesday, April 24, 06:30:45pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)
                    • Why is that right always grows in popularity during economic downturns? (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Thursday, April 25, 10:15:14am (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                      • I agree that you are overthinking it - I was a teenager in the 70's - a number of kids I went to school with used to run with different firms - there was nothing political about it - they just enjoyed the sport of it - and jeez could they talk endlessly about it. (NT) -- f bloke, Thursday, April 25, 11:13:24am (host86-134-8-206.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.8.206)
                        • Yes, but they were all likely jumping on a bandwagon already established by what other causal factors? Was it just young male bravado, or was there also a lack opportunity to do more self rewarding stuff either at work or in non work time? Skinheads and Rockers often had political values and fought. The two generations before had the wars and would have had enough of fighting I guess. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Thursday, April 25, 01:45:36pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                          • my experience was that they just enjoyed it - at my school, the more politically aware tended not to be the types running with the firms. Those that did - defined themselves by their physical toughness - which to them was more important than being smart or funny - and smart and funny ranked below being good at sport. (NT) -- f bloke, Thursday, April 25, 02:37:21pm (host86-134-8-206.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.8.206)
                            • I agree hooligans were not necessarily politically driven. Some would have had far right connections, some in the Anti Nazi League? What I am trying to theorise is if the socio-political milieu of the time made hooliganism more likely; social deprivation, lack of other meaningful leisure pursuits, unemployment? The early 70's were pretty dull times with the 3 day week and oil price rises. Football was an opportunity to become stimulated and affilliated with others through conflict. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Thursday, April 25, 03:10:22pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                              • The end of conscription in 56 might have something to do with it. Young men need an outlet for their high energy levels. Not saying the military is the answer but it might partially answer your question. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Thursday, April 25, 03:56:32pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)
                                • Yes I thought that. When you compare what is out there and affordable for youngsters these days, compared to those times; indoor climbing walls, different types of cycling including mountain biking, marshall arts, parkuor, skateboarding, graffitti artistry. Most carry an element of risk and were not around in the 70's. Also the extensive use of gyms these days help young people to get stimulation and a sense of achivement. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Thursday, April 25, 04:43:06pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
                                  • Also,the ability to travel is much more affordable now and television was very limited back then. No PlayStations and the like either. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Thursday, April 25, 06:17:01pm (NoHost/31.94.24.37)
              • Specifically on football, the difference 60 years ago, was not that there was no tribalism, but 1) it took itself less balls-achingly solemnly. 2) You could mix in more than half of a ground (even e.g. Anfield), and not just by lying low. Stayed that way longer in other sports, I think. (NT) -- b+w g., Wednesday, April 24, 04:58:09pm (79.52.159.143.dyn.plus.net/143.159.52.79)
                • Pretty sure hooliganism was fairly common place in the 60's - Tribal violence was already a thing with mods/rockers, skinheads, suedeheads. I am guessing - but I suspect before the 60's, going to the game was something you did with your dad - from the 60's it was what you did with your mates. In the last 20 years or so - it is again a thing that you do with your mum/dad which may be another reason why the atmospheres are not quite what they were. (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, April 24, 05:11:11pm (host86-134-8-206.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.8.206)
                  • I agree (indeed said) tribalism existed, being a human constant arguably. Hooliganism arising from, too. But I stick to my memory of a lack of segregation in many parts of football grounds where the notion today would be reckoned sacriligeous. Also that the result was not a diminution of atmosphere. (NT) -- b+w g., Wednesday, April 24, 06:10:44pm (79.52.159.143.dyn.plus.net/143.159.52.79)
                    • I defer to your memory since I was v young at the time but I do remember Derby fans trying to take the Hammy end the season they went up under Clough and seeing Arsenal fans run onto the pitch at the dog track to take on the Shed - that would have been around the same time. Maybe just not as common place as the 70s (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, April 24, 06:37:41pm (host86-134-8-206.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.8.206)
                      • Cross-purposes here and nothing to defer to, since Shed, Kop, North Bank, Chicken Run, H.End... were in my memory too distinct tribal territory. Elsewhere, while of course home supporters predominated, it wasn't a crime to be among them. Only had, and have, that limited point to make, but will add this was prior to replica kit, all-seaters and the need to pre-book. (NT) -- b+w g., Wednesday, April 24, 07:15:19pm (79.52.159.143.dyn.plus.net/143.159.52.79)
                  • My uncle was an Arsenal fan who used to stand on the North Bank every home game. He stopped going the first time he saw violance on the terraces in the late 60's. He never went again. I always thought this was an overeaction, but he was quite adament about it. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Wednesday, April 24, 06:27:19pm (host-92-18-248-105.as13285.net/92.18.248.105)
          • It was only a few years ago the Putney End was designated a neutral area. Unofficially it still is. (NT) -- Hammersmithender, Wednesday, April 24, 12:39:33pm (NoHost/31.94.24.36)
  • Accept in this case it clearly wasn't a disaster. (NT) -- Get a grip, Tuesday, April 23, 04:29:49pm (cpc69060-oxfd26-2-0-cust627.4-3.cable.virginm.net/82.6.50.116)

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• I was reasonably happy with the Saturday, at least we didn't lose (NT) -- Waterboy, Tuesday, April 23, 06:13:20pm (NoHost/90.243.145.95)
  • I think the Saturday referred to by OP was probably a light training session at MP which was unfortunately carried out the following day with knobs on. (NT) -- Bad Boy, Tuesday, April 23, 07:18:26pm (5ad7d0c0.bb.sky.com/90.215.208.192)

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• Losing 5-0 to Arsenal with your team costing £750m is a pretty rancid way of losing as well. (NT) -- GTS, Tuesday, April 23, 10:56:47pm (57517f91.skybroadband.com/87.81.127.145)

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• It is only organised violence that is a relatively modern thing.Lame fcukers like The ICF.We never touch scarfers my arse.I would expect Juan especially with his deep widespread reading to realise this.Read up on some old Newcastle v Sunderland or Old Firm games.Not as common but oiks have always been oiks. (NT) -- HemelRog, Thursday, April 25, 09:00:48am (5ad587d4.bb.sky.com/90.213.135.212)
  • Work colleague 30 years ago passed an old textbook from her college days (think it was 'sociology') called The Roots of Football Hooliganism. Just re-discovered it in a nook of my own mass of books. Largely unread but I see that there's a chapter called: 'Football hooliganism and the working class before the First World War.' Backs you up (nor denied by me earlier in this thread, when I'd a different point to make) (NT) -- b+w g., Friday, April 26, 09:52:48am (79.52.159.143.dyn.plus.net/143.159.52.79)