Create a New Forum Admin Login Member Login Contribute to Voyager Search VoyForums Help Desk VoyForums Exchange VoyForums Directory/Categories VoyForums Homepage VoyForums News FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Monday, January 20, 10:28:37pm

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 ]

• I don’t suppose you actually have the shots per goal stat for Raul do you. (NT) -- Hg, Wednesday, January 15, 10:12:51pm (cpc141402-brnt4-2-0-cust971.4-2.cable.virginm.net/86.9.199.204)
  • Yep. Mitro in 2022/23 scored a goal every 5.7 shots. Raul this season has scored a goal every 6.1 shots. They are for all intents and purposes just a rounding error away from each other, both scoring a goal every 6 shots. Given his greater contribution with possession and assists and equal statistical contribution defensively, the numbers just edge it overall for Raul this season over Mitro 2022/23, but it is so close as to be a non-argument. Mitro and Raul are equal. (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, January 15, 11:41:17pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
    • And before someone chimes in and tries to claim something about penalty kicks, the stats on Shots do not include penalties, so they have no impact on the analysis above. But for reference, in 2022/23 Mitro had 0.36 penalty kick attempts per 90 in the Premier League (8 in total), Raul has so far had 0.21 penalty kicks per 90 (3 in total). In other words Mitro had far more penalty opportunities that year than Raul is likely to have this year. (NT) -- eganonoa, Thursday, January 16, 12:07:29am (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)

  ---

• I was the original poster and the post was not about comparing the two. It was about not having a clinical finisher and the club’s.failure in three windows to find a goalscoror who was clinical , (NT) -- View from the Riverside, Thursday, January 16, 05:46:23am (NoHost/2.218.9.12)
  • But you said since mitro left we haven’t resolved the issue of not having a clinical striker, but the clear numbers above prove exactly the opposite, Raul is as clinical as mitro, with the plus side of not wasting penalties and offering more movement, albeit not as strong in the air. As much as people just don’t want to say it, as they labelled Raul useless and washed up, he’s performing as well as mitro at his peak (ignoring his poor prem seasons). (NT) -- Henry1879, Thursday, January 16, 07:26:58am (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
    • I think that's a technical KO ;-) (NT) -- MH, Thursday, January 16, 07:46:55am (customer.sydyaus1.pop.starlinkisp.net/65.181.12.120)
    • Me and you must have a different definition of clinical. Was it hoddle that said Andy Cole wasn’t clinical because he needed 5 shots to score a goal. Yet Raul is on other 6 shots and that includes his penalty goals. (NT) -- Hg, Thursday, January 16, 08:11:19am (NoHost/31.94.64.40)
      • I haven’t defined clinical, I’m just looking at the impartial stats, which say Raul has been as clinical as mitro this season at his best, better than Watkins, haaland and solanke this season. It’s almost impossible to judge by eye how clinical someone is over the season, invariably we remember misses, but the stats say Raul has been a good prem CF this season and done a good job of finishing chances he’s been given, that’s not my opinion, it’s statistically what’s happened. (NT) -- Henry1879, Thursday, January 16, 08:36:45am (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
        • I would absolutely love to know where all these chances are that supposedly Raul keeps missing? One that hit the bar v Wolves, you could say perhaps a couple of half chance headers over the 20 odd games> We're not talking about an Andy Cole who played for a dominant side and would be offered up golden chances in their bucket loads. (NT) -- Jim© The Devon IP, Thursday, January 16, 10:52:00am (62-64-192-58.virtual1.co.uk/62.64.192.58)
          • In the pointless Mitrovic vs Raul comparison we keep having, there's something less tangible than goals and 'goal contributions' about the two. I just always felt like our attack was more cohesive with Mitrovic and he offered a lot more over the rest of the pitch. Its kind of like comparing the scoring records of Johnson and Zamora - if you were only looking at goal stats you'd always go with Johnson, but Zamora brought so much more. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Thursday, January 16, 11:01:03am (webdefence-pool-02.cluster-a.forcepoint.net/85.115.52.202)
            • The problem is that's based on feeling and doesn't stand up to data, which show Raul better in things like keeping possession, creating chances, and some defensive stats. All players are different and provide something different to the team. But it's pretty clear that Raul has provided about as much as Mitro at his best. For goals, it's really just a function of shots being created for our striker. We are 11th in the league on that and our striker is 11th in the league on goals scored (NT) -- eganonoa, Thursday, January 16, 11:11:34am (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
            • Pointless to an extent, but isn’t that the point of a FFC messageboard, people comparing opinions, stats on players, it’s just normal fan chat, X v Y player. Ega has shown good amounts of data on how similar they overall, with different strengths/weakness. I’d add, how about non-football, mitro clearly an ego (always on pens, showed his colours when forcing a move) v Raul, not heard a bad word, always plays for the team and never an issue when not starting. (NT) -- Henry1879, Thursday, January 16, 12:13:16pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
              • I wasn't trying to halt conversation, just think its pointless as the stats are being generated at different points, with different teammates, with different context around them. Non football, i'd lean towards your interpretation certainly, but equally, we would have failed PSR without that Mitrovic sale, so i remain unconvinced that we know the whole story around that move. I'd still rather have Mitrovic in my team than Raul, but we don't have that. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Thursday, January 16, 12:29:58pm (webdefence-pool-02.cluster-a.forcepoint.net/85.115.52.202)
                • Interesting on PSR. I hadn't realized that. On Mitro v Raul, I would also prefer to have Mitro. Raul is overall a more rounded player and less precious presence. But we're a team founded on crossing and Mitro was a beast there. What drives me bit crazy, though, is the endless "we haven't replaced Mitro" stuff. While Raul wasn't bought as his replacement, he's turned into it and done it so cheap we've been able to invest elsewhere. He's different, but has proven to be just as productive (NT) -- eganonoa, Thursday, January 16, 01:37:58pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
                  • That’s about where I’m at, this theory we’d be a far better team with mitro because people have decided Raul is washed up and overlook how well he’s done. I’d marginally pick mitro mainly due set pieces, even his threat changes our dynamic offensively and defensively, but there’s not a gulf between the 2 and as silva has said, CF isn’t a priority unless someone leaves (ie he agrees). (NT) -- Henry1879, Thursday, January 16, 01:49:19pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
      • By that definition Mitro then was as "bad" as Raul is now, so the argument that we "haven't addressed" the issue since Mitro left fails. You could, I suppose, argue that "we never had" a clinical striker, but that's not what is being said. It would also fly in the face of facts given that in the current top-10 goal scorers there are three - Cunha (5.8), Jackson (6.3), Watkins (5.8) - with the same shot-to-goals ratio, and two - Palmer (5.1), Haaland (5.2) - just a notch below. (NT) -- eganonoa, Thursday, January 16, 10:46:50am (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)

  ---

• Why are we talking about a has been in a never were league? (NT) -- Rupert, Thursday, January 16, 10:52:00am (5ec14628.skybroadband.com/94.193.70.40)

  ---

• Would be interested in the stats of all the squad apart from Iwobi to see their goals/chances they have missed this season (NT) -- Waterboy, Thursday, January 16, 02:28:30pm (NoHost/81.79.89.125)
  • Easiest way to show that without a new post is the squad in aggregate. We have scored a goal every 9.3 shots (league average is 9.8). That's 11th in the league. We're 10th in the league in goals scored, 11th in shots taken, 10th in % shots on target, 12th in goals per shot on target, 10th in expected goals, 13th in non-penalty expected goals and we've scored 1.3 goals more than xG thinks we should have. Shooting isn't the problem. If we want to score more we need to create more clear-cut chances (NT) -- eganonoa, Thursday, January 16, 03:41:53pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)