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Wednesday, October 23, 11:26:13pm

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• Like Lukic did, Berge may need time to develop his role in the team. I think he has more to his game than Lukic, but as you say he might not be playing to full capacity for a while. But then again he won't unless he gets games. (NT) -- Juana Aorta, Monday, October 14, 03:58:26pm (217-155-46-35.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk/217.155.46.35)
  • I'm not convinced he has more to his game. As I say - different skills, but Lukic definitely better under the press, better on the ball, and better at setting the tempo. All of those are things that have been really important to us at the moment. Looking at their pre Fulham careers, Lukic certainly has the better pedigree, albeit he's 18 months older (NT) -- Same Old Story, Monday, October 14, 04:11:16pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
    • Not sure its true that Lukic is "better under the press, better on the ball, and better at setting the tempo." If you look at their career numbers (inside) they touch the ball & receive it a similar amount & on the ball they are nearly identical in: (a) passing attempts & completions (slight edge to Berge, esp. long passing); (b) carries (slight edge to Berge, esp. progressive distance & take-ons); & (c) keeping the ball (Berge tackled & miscontrols less, Lukic dispossessed less). -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 05:18:44pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
      • I use those stats because I think they best show who is good "under the press, on the ball & setting tempo", i.e. who can control the ball well, make both safe sideways & incisive forward passes, carry the ball when there is no one to pass to, & is hard to tackle or push off the ball. Across all stats relevant to that they are very close on both %age & per/90 bases (with Berge typically having a very slight edge). I think that's no accident. 2 players per position being the clear mantra. (NT) -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 05:35:28pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
        • Berge's pedigree is 2 relegations from the premier league, whilst Lukic's is 150 games at a mid table serie A side including european campaigns. He's clearly got the stronger pedigree. As for your stats, optically, we're clearly worse this season when Lukic is off the field. Our results are worse, as well. Too small a sample size? Quite possibly. But it's the only sample size we've got at present (NT) -- Same Old Story, Monday, October 14, 06:03:05pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
          • Not sure what the "two relegations" thing is about, especially if we compare quality at mid-table Serie A vs lower-table Prem. But on core "pedigree metrics": Berge 22 European games, inc 6 Champions League when named in a "best of" champions league team; Lukic 7 European, 1 Champions League. Lukic 52 appearances for 35th ranked national team at age 28, Verge 50 for 47th ranked team at age 26. These two are so similar its hilarious to try to nitpick between them, which is my point. (NT) -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 11:56:45pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
            • He's been relegated with both Sheff Utd and Burnley. Its not difficult to understand. Even for you. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, October 15, 09:30:45am (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
        • On your core point that we're worse when Lukic is off the field, its a bit too early to make such judgments. He's played 7, been subbed 4 times, but only twice before the 83rd minute. So really it's only two instances, and in one of those games we won 3-1, conceding no more goals and scoring one. And we can't exactly use the League Cup as those we wholesale changes and it's not as if we were radically transformed when he came on. Reality is Berge is likely about par with Lukic. (NT) -- eganonoa, Tuesday, October 15, 12:09:25am (NoHost/106.255.112.8)

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• I know you love Lukic like family, but I think love's making you blind. It's only been 7 games & it's not as if he was a linchpin before. Berge has a strong track-record in this league & role, inc. named in the Champions League Breakthrough Team while playing it for Genk. He was signed by Marco to play the position & has had time to adjust & gain fitness. He may not be the same but brings different useful qualities (inc. height vs Everton). He can clearly do it. At worst a marginal drop-off. (NT) -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 05:02:02pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
  • That's the second time you've had a little dig about me rating Lukic and I'm not sure why. I happen to think he's been exceptional this season. It has nothing to do with 'love' for him. I just think he's underappreciated, as you are showing in this exchange. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Monday, October 14, 05:58:37pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
    • Because I think your obsession is a bit hilarious and think it funny that you can't see it! E.g. we're arguing in a post where I started by saying its terrible for him because he's been so great, because I'm making the case that Berge can provide at min 90% of the production of Lukic, highlighting that in just about every objective metric they are on the same level, but still saying Berge might not give the same level of production! (NT) -- eganonoa, Tuesday, October 15, 12:03:17am (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
      • Obsession? Do you know what? Fuck off. Not responding to you any more. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, October 15, 09:27:09am (NoHost/90.241.124.131)