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Subject: Dartmouth MBB Author: Ivy Inquisitor (Transcript available?) [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 19:27:21 03/07/24 Thu I’m admittedly been watching this situation with cornering, interesting distain. If this expands thought out the Ivy League; Will the counter action be devaluing Ivy athletics to “club” status? What are Dartmouth’s MBB demands for unionization? Is there any transcript available? I can envision this ruling reaching far beyond college athletics to other school’s band, choir’s concerts, trade schools culinary catering, automotive work, hairstylist and health care programs. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:22:04 03/08/24 Fri Dartmouth administration continues to show sensible clear mindedness First on the value of SAT's Now on unionization of MBB “The students on the men’s basketball team are not in any way employed by Dartmouth,” the statement read. “For Ivy League students who are varsity athletes, academics are of primary importance, and athletic pursuit is part of the educational experience. Classifying these students as employees simply because they play basketball is as unprecedented as it is inaccurate. We, therefore, do not believe unionization is appropriate.” At the end of the day FinAid in the Ivy League is not given out because you play a sport but based on financial need. Playing any sport is elective. If you stop playing the sport your Fin Aid package is not touched (unlike a athletic scholarship). As it applies to the IL the unionization stunt is going nowhere. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: Greenhorn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:08:13 03/11/24 Mon If this somehow stands, why won't Dartmouth just drop mens basketball? Or "hire" scabs from the intramural ranks? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: For openers... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:27:38 03/12/24 Tue It would be a very a-hole move on Dartmouth's part. That's just not our style... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: My Experience in Labor Organizing Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:25:29 03/12/24 Tue Back when I was in sixth grade -- as a reminder, that's elementary school -- like the Dartmouth basketball players, I got swept up in the heady emotions of the times and organized my peers. I formed something called the SARC, the Student Active Rights Committee. I rallied my fellow sixth-graders and we asked for more of a voice in how our school was run. The administration of my elementary school reacted beautifully. They allowed me to address my classmates during school time and were receptive to considering our "demands." They treated us, as least superficially, seriously. Then they waited for us to graduate to junior high school. I recommend that Dartmouth treat their college students as my elementary school principal and teachers treated me. Communicate, appeal the ruling through the courts and delay as much as possible. Like me in sixth grade, these rabble rousers will graduate. And as I did when I arrived in junior high school, they will soon forget about their grievances and move on in life. If not, shut down the team. Seriously, I doubt it will come to that but, if we are still here at the end of the appeals process, it's time to pull a President Reagan/Air Traffic Controllers Union. There's a time for smiles and handshakes, then there's a time to show that you have options. Shut down the team. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Query for everyone... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:58:41 03/12/24 Tue Can anyone give examples of an Ivy school being very petty, acting completely out of spite? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Query for everyone... Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:41:25 03/12/24 Tue I disagree that shutting down the team is tantamount to acting out of spite. The Dartmouth men's basketball players are asking -- indeed, they are demanding -- to be treated as employees. They filed a motion with the National LABOR Relations Board to be treated as such. What is the relationship between any company and the employees of said company? The employees provide labor to the company which combines that labor with capital and goodwill in the form of branding and customer relationships to create economic value. If the economic value created at the back end does not justify the investment of labor and capital, then the company has difficult decisions to make. That's how our system works. That's how it should work. Well, what economic value does the Dartmouth men's basketball team create? Let's see, the sports teams at any college create learning opportunities for the players, fun for the students and other fans, plus potentially revenue and profit if there is enough attendance or television interest. At Dartmouth, the men's basketball team creates little revenue and certainly negative profit. One could argue that it creates fun for the fans but, at the margin, the team contributes little beyond what the football team does. So the Dartmouth men's basketball team is like a small, money-losing division of a larger enterprise which has goals and needs of its own, but also constraints and funding requirements. Team players: "We're a business. Treat us like a business." Dartmouth: "Okay, you're a business. Now you're out of business." That's not spite. That's Lesson 1 in Business for the players. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I think the better analogy would be... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:48:41 03/13/24 Wed Imagine if Brown dropped its entire varsity athletic program after it lost the Title IX suit. Too expensive to have gender equality in sports teams and all that... That's pretty much the equivalent of what you (and others) suggest that Dartmouth do if they are not successful in challenging the union vote in the courts. I mean, as far as I can tell, the union hasn't even made a demand to the college yet. Can't you at least wait until they make some sort of monetary demand before recommending that the team be disbanded? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:36:22 03/08/24 Fri Given how poorly the Green play,if they are employees, they should be fired. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:03:16 03/08/24 Fri Not going to qualify for any bonus. Those KPI metrics will be brutal. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Since the vote... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:59:45 03/08/24 Fri The MBB is 1-0. Just saying. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Since the vote... Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:32:11 03/08/24 Fri If they can turn this into a sustainable strategy, I will be very impressed. I did notice that there were two guys on the team who didn't receive any passes even when they were wide open. Musta been the two who voted "nay." [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: How will we tell if they try an in-game work slowdown? Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:05:52 03/08/24 Fri Imagine a school looking for a new coach. During the interview, the AD informs the prospective coach he won't have to negotiate with his players over practice time, easy access to food, access to majors in various subjects that may conflict with practice schedules, and representation in the event of coach/trainer conflicts/abuse, or playing time priority; such negotiations will be handled by the AD and the coach only needs to comply with or implement the negotiated solutions in such a way as to not leave the school open to an unfair labor practice charge. Think how much easier it should be to find a new coach who is eager to assume such a carefree role. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Since the vote... Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:42:24 03/11/24 Mon All power to the people. LOL. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:05:49 03/12/24 Tue "If the economic value created at the back end does not justify the investment of labor and capital, then the company has difficult decisions to make." I owned a business for 27 years. The decisions will not be difficult to make. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:19:16 03/12/24 Tue It will be interesting to see how the union stunt will effect recruiting Suppose you just want to play college basketball at a great school The uncertainty of what the union adds or subtracts to the 4 year experience cannot be helpful for recruiting players [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: Fear the Quaker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:47:37 03/13/24 Wed Yes, the point about just being a player and enjoying school seems to be lost amid the conversation about college sports. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Dartmouth MBB Author: Greenhorn [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:00:43 03/13/24 Wed I am also curious about the interplay between this and Title IX. Will any concession/accommodation Dartmouth makes for the unionized men have to be extended to the non-unionized women's team? To other teams? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Union dues? Author: Ivy Inquisitor [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:56:50 03/13/24 Wed Is Big Green MBB now required to pay union dues? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]