Re: Thor Griffith and Joey Slackman -- <h1>IVY LEAGUE SPORTS BOARD</h1>

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Subject: Re: Thor Griffith and Joey Slackman

Author:
An Observer

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Date Posted: 12:24:36 08/28/24 Wed
In reply to: Ivy guy 's message, "Thor Griffith and Joey Slackman" on 12:03:31 08/28/24 Wed

Exhibits A and B in the face of those on this board who disparage contemporary Ivy League football. I was here and in our stadiums during the Nineties when the product on the field *WAS* bad, short slow guys who had substandard hand-eye coordination relative to the bottom of the power conferences.

Those days are gone. The top two or three Ivy teams, variable from year to year, are excellent competitive FCS programs, and the best individuals are moving on to start at Florida and Louisville.

Modern Ivy League football is nothing to be embarrassed about. On the contrary, it's quality stuff.

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Replies:

[> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Ivy wanna be [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 13:16:02 08/28/24 Wed He’s the projected RT for Louisville [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Ghost [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 16:32:12 08/31/24 Sat Can we pump the brakes, please? Three lineman transfer up to the big leagues, three players out of 176 starters, no skill players (with full respect to linemen) and that is supposed to reflect how good the play is in the league? Aren't you watching these games every week? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Penn Nation [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 17:20:13 08/31/24 Sat Yes we watch thanks for sharing. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Ghost [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 22:10:33 08/31/24 Sat When was the last time you saw a skilled position player dominate the league and you thought, "that guy is a pro prospect, for sure" or "that guy can excel in the ACC or the SEC"? Ryan Fitzpatrick? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza

Author:
Lurker
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Date Posted: 11:36:11 09/01/24 Sun

Not exactly to answer, but … just the last few years from Columbia:

JJ Jenkins starting at Buffalo
D Miller Giants practice squad
Colbert Dolphins practice squad
Cam Dillon Lber duke
Paul Akere edge UVa

Pretty good top end talent.

I also dont get why fbs/nfl talent among down linemen in the league is somehow less impressive than “skill” positions

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Ghost [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 12:35:18 09/01/24 Sun Again, a handful of players over how many years? Because skill players reflect, more so, the level of play in the league. You don't sell tickets or create fan appeal on line play. The Ivies are among the bottom five leagues on the FCS level. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Ed S. [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 14:52:01 09/01/24 Sun And why doesn't mean anything? The Ivy League will continue no matter what you think of its level of play. Give it a rest already, your rant is boring. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Thor Griffith , Joey Slackman and Yale’sJonathan Mendoza
Author: Ghost [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 19:11:00 09/01/24 Sun I think it will be here forever, agreed. There will always be a place for smart, academically superior student-athletes to play football 10 games a year. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The most recent skill position player?
Author: sparman [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 16:40:10 09/01/24 Sun Possibly Andre Iosivas (2022). Jon Lovett before him, before he was sidelined by injuries. Columbia fans may say Miller. Fitzpatrick = Hyperbole. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Any particular reason why you're picking on the 1990s rather than the 1980s?
Author: Go Green [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 13:22:25 08/28/24 Wed I always thought the 1980s was the nadir of Ivy football talent level. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: And Here's Exhibit A
Author: Go Green [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 13:31:33 08/28/24 Wed https://exhibitions.library.columbia.edu/exhibits/show/roar-lion-roar/recent-days/the-streak [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: And Here's Exhibit A

Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 13:51:24 08/28/24 Wed

The Streak is not convincing evidence for the quality of Ivy League football, strong or weak.

First, the Streak was mostly against other Ivy teams. 1980's Columbia football could have been on par with Vanderbilt constantly losing to the likes of Florida, Georgia and Alabama, or a bottom of the barrel Big Ten school getting pummeled week in and week out by Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State.

Second, the bottom of any league is not a fair way to assess any conference. At the nadir of the Ivies in the Nineties, even the top teams were no good.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Fine here are Exhibits B through I

Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 14:08:59 08/28/24 Wed

https://nusports.com/sports/football/opponent-history/princeton-university/136

https://hawaiiathletics.com/sports/football/opponent-history/yale-university/309

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/1986-10-04-navy.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/1989-09-30-army.html

https://pennathletics.com/sports/football/schedule/1980

https://brownbears.com/sports/football/schedule/1988

And last but not least...

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/02/sports/college-football-columbia-up-by-14-at-halftime-is-beaten-again.html

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fine here are Exhibits B through I
Author: An Observer [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 14:59:51 08/28/24 Wed I think that the best evidence you could provide is a few Ivy champions getting beaten pretty badly by Patriot League or other FCS teams, or getting smashed by bottom of the barrel Power Five programs. Do any of those qualify? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fine here are Exhibits B through I
Author: observer [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 15:32:59 08/28/24 Wed The 1980s were rock bottom. Separated from Division 1 Waning media coverage Institution of the AI No scholies Pre-Financial Aid Wars But the recent changes to college sports may trigger another down period. Separated further from Division 1 Scholarship and Union Lawsuits NIL confusion [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fine here are Exhibits B through I
Author: Drew2411 [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 20:08:12 09/02/24 Mon I agree. 1980s were the low point for Ivy sports, especially football. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Happy to oblige!

Author:
Go Green
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Date Posted: 15:39:08 08/28/24 Wed

1980 No bad losses
1981 Dartmouth lost to Holy Cross 28-0.
1982 Penn lost to Lafayette 35-20.
1983 Penn lost to Delaware 40-7.
1983 Harvard lost to a mediocre UMass team 21-7.
1984 Penn lost to Army 43-7
1985 Penn lost to Army 41-3
1986 No losses at all
1987 Harvard lost to Holy Cross 41-6
1988 Cornell lost to a mediocre Lehigh team 27-14
1989 Princeton lost to Holy Cross 46-0

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Happy to oblige!

Author:
An Observer
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Date Posted: 15:55:36 08/28/24 Wed

Excellent, rapid response. Can you cross-reference each of the Ivy losers with where they finished within the League? Today, we instinctively think of Harvard, Penn and Dartmouth as conference powers, but of course that is less true for the Eighties.

I agree with "observer" (no "An") that we stand on the edge of the precipice of another seismic change in the competitiveness of the Ivies nationally. And yes, the likely direction is downward. It's a shame. I hope everybody enjoyed Princeton's Sweet Sixteen run and Yale's shocker over Auburn. We might be thinking wistfully about them for a while.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I sure can!
Author: Go Green [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 16:02:39 08/28/24 Wed They were all champs or co-champs. For completeness, 1980 Ivy Champ Yale did not have any bad losses, and 1986 Ivy champ Penn went undefeated. And admittedly, some co-champions in the 1980s did not have any bad losses either. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I sure can!
Author: An Observer [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 16:08:24 08/28/24 Wed I am disappointed you overlooked the opportunity to mention that the '89 Princeton team which got blown out by Holy Cross included a younger, thinner Robert Surace. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Ack!
Author: Go Green [ Edit \| View ]	Date Posted: 16:21:01 08/28/24 Wed You are correct! Indeed, to show you how much better the 1990s Ivy teams were, 1992 Ivy champ Dartmouth beat Holy Cross 48-0 and 1994 Ivy champ Penn beat them 59-8. I can only imagine what they would have done to that puny 1989 Princeton team. :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]