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Subject: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Harvard Crimson Rule! [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:26:23 12/29/24 Sun He'll have two years of eligibility as he'll receive his degree this May in just three years at Harvard. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:57:29 12/30/24 Mon Best of luck to him. I've said it before, and I'll say it again-- a large part of the Ivy championship going forward will be which teams can hold onto their stars for four years. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Yeti [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:52:13 12/30/24 Mon In the midst of all the changes sweeping college football, the Ivy League has often seemed outpaced by the rapid evolution of the sport. However, a new potential recruiting pitch may turn this perceived disadvantage into an opportunity: “Come to an Ivy League school and gain an invaluable education while honing your skills in a competitive, yet less pressurized, non-Power Four environment. Spend four years developing your game and testing yourself against strong competition. If you excel, upon graduation, you may have the option to transfer to an FBS program for additional exposure to NFL scouts without the strain of rigorous academics or the prestige of an Ivy League education holding you back. This pathway has already proven successful for NFL draftees like Hunter Nourzad (Cornell, Penn State), Nick Gargiulo (Yale, South Carolina) and others.” This approach emphasizes the unique combination of academic and athletic development the Ivy League offers, creating a win-win scenario for both players and programs. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:49:00 12/30/24 Mon Another recruiting pitch "You have proven after 2 years in the Ivy League that you are an excellent college athlete. Come to a Power 4 conference where you will make serious money, have fans who actually attend your games and get a an excellent degree. After all, whats so bad about Duke/Vanderbilt/Northwestern/WakeForest/UVa//Michigan/USC/Stanford/Notre Dame?" [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Yeti [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:26:27 12/31/24 Tue Good point. But Ivy coaches must sell the education as a cut above other schools like Duke or Vanderbilt. And, how many success stories have there been of players taking this route? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:27:33 12/31/24 Tue "But Ivy coaches must sell the education as a cut above other schools ..." and you wonder why the rest of the country hates the Ivy League ? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: The Dawning of a New Age in Ivy League Sports Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:00:41 12/31/24 Tue I don't argue that the rest of the country hates the Ivy League, never more so than now. It's interesting that the number of applications keeps rising even as the number of 17-year-old Americans has peaked and international students plateau, scared off by visa complications and threats of travel bans. To summarize, much of America hates us, yet still wants to attend our eight colleges. As is usually said about people who are sleeping together, there is a thin line between love and hate. The true opposite of love is indifference. America is not indifferent to the Ivy League. I don't doubt for a second that I could have received an equivalent or comparable education at Stanford, Northwestern or Vanderbilt. I have serious doubts about doing so at Duke, the most overrated university in America by my accounting. The education that you earn at a top college has much more to do with YOU than with the top college. Having said that, as I look back upon my college choice from the perspective of decades out of the Ivy gates, I would still make the same selection again, turning down other excellent options. You don't choose an elite university for the education, as good as it is. You choose an elite university for the people you will meet and befriend, who will be your fellow travelers down the road of life for the next six or seven decades, and hopefully longer. The education I could have gotten anywhere, including at my flagship state university. The friends and acquaintances, not so much. That's what Ivy League colleges can and should sell their athletic recruits. I believe that the impact of NILs and the transfer portal is corrosive and will accelerate in its negative impact on college sports. This is a terrible development for American education and American society. But curiously, NILs and the transfer portal could be a shot of truth serum for athletic programs at the Ivies and other elite colleges. What we are selling is an incomparable undergraduate experience (if not education per se) and an unmatched alumni network. The Ivies which do not impress freshmen and sophomores on these two dimensions are going to lose their stars to Georgetown, Michigan and Vanderbilt (I wonder how much the Princeton volleyball star will be making in Nashville). **BUT** the Ivies which deliver upon their promises -- experience and fellow students/alumni -- will keep their star players and win on the field/court. It's time for the Ivies to deliver on our promise of being the best undergraduate experience in America. I believe that each of us can, but not all of us will. In fact, I think most of us on this board can guess which Ivies will and which will not. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Dawning of a New Age in Ivy League Sports Author: Yeti [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:44:24 12/31/24 Tue Agreed. The Ivy League “package” remains highly desirable and can, and should, be leveraged by Ivy football coaches. Beyond just academics, Ivy football has the potential to set a standard of excellence in competitive, amateur sports, embodying the ideal of multidimensional “renaissance men” who excel both on and off the field. This Ancient Greek-like ideal—balancing intellect, athleticism, and character—could resonate even more in today’s college football landscape. For recruits and fans alike, it offers something unique and enduring in contrast to the increasingly commercialized world of college sports. While reforms are undoubtedly needed, the Ivy League’s ability to provide an unparalleled undergraduate experience, world-class education, and a lifelong alumni network positions it to thrive if these values are emphasized. In a way, NILs and the transfer portal might push the Ivies to fully embrace and deliver on these promises. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: The Dawning of a New Age in Ivy League Sports Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:58:42 12/31/24 Tue Perhaps my glasses are rose colored, but I don't think most of America hates the ivies. I think they hate some of the attitudes they see, like disdain for "flyover" states. There are too many students trying to get in our schools from those states to convince me they hate us. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Yeti [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:35:18 12/31/24 Tue I don’t wonder why. Hate us ‘cause they ain’t us. Nothing wrong with being the best. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Bob S [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:54:49 12/31/24 Tue We get kind of caught up in ourselves here. As other experts have ventured there are about 100 "Top Ten" Colleges in the U.S At the crux of the recent athletic scholarship court case in the Ivy League the Judge threw out the case based on his opinion that if a top athlete wanted an athletic scholarship at an elite school they could attend Notre Dame, Stanford, Rice, etc. In other words there are many good options for athletes who are top students including the Division III NESCAC schools which compete for national championships including basketball. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:17:45 12/31/24 Tue I am as rabid a Princetonian as anyone. At the same time, with age, I think it is important not to believe our own BS. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Education =/= Experience Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:54:09 12/31/24 Tue Bob S, when the idiot suit-filers at Brown (or was it the idiot unionizers at Dartmouth? -- sometimes it's difficult to keep idiots apart) filed their suit, I immediately posted here on this message board that they should lose their suit because there are many many colleges where one can get an excellent education. The Ivy League is not in any way a monopoly on selling a quality education. So I agree with you 100% on that. Having said that, at the risk of repeating myself (who am I kidding? -- I am repeating myself), a quality education at Northwestern or my state flagship university does not mean an equivalent undergraduate experience. The people I met decades ago in college and immediately thereafter continue to be my most important personal and professional asset, outside of my family. You only get one chance to make college friends and acquaintances. The education I could have easily replicated at my state flagship university. The professional network? The friends who have walked with me since graduation day? Never. And I lived in a state with a pretty good flagship university. I firmly believe that one can get a similarly high quality *education* at any one of the top 25 most highly rated universities in the US News ranking, plus another top 15 or so among the liberal arts colleges. There's almost no difference between them. I also believe that there's a huge difference in the POTENTIAL *experience* just in the top 10, probably the top 5. My best friend in high school was accepted to his first choice college, Cornell. He attended the University of Virginia because his father asked him to save money on tuition even though the father was a highly paid corporate executive. It's only in the last few years that I have fully realized what a mistake the father made. I'm still best friends with this guy, close enough that a couple of months ago I felt that I could tell him the following. He said, "Maybe I should have gone to Cornell. Maybe Virginia was a mistake." I replied, "Your father made a mistake. You made a mistake. I would have crawled on my hands and knees to attend my first choice college and nothing my parents could have said would have stopped me. Picking a college based on cost is a terrible decision." These are the decisions that a seventeen-year-old kid needs to be able to make well. These decisions matter. That's how lives well lived and lived to their fullest are crafted. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Education =/= Experience Author: Thiment () [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:21:32 01/14/25 Tue I am sharing your opinion about the importance of choosing a university for its ranking or cost and the opportunities it offers for personal and professional development. The social connections formed in college can become a key asset in life. At the same time, it is important for those looking for additional support during their studies to consider the available resources. I sometimes used https://essay-company.org/term-paper-writing-service/ when I couldn't cope with a task alone. It was a good support for me on my way to academic achievement. The right choice of university determines the quality of education and who we will become in life. Last edited by author: Thu January 16, 2025 10:47:54 GMT-6   Edited 1 time. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Lurker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:21:16 12/31/24 Tue As I have stated here in the past: playing football at Northwestern and other “high academic” FBS schools is not necessarily the same education as other students At Cornell, many of my teammates were engineering students, as is my son At Columbia. In my understanding many academic fields are not available for football players at NW The IL is still unique in delivering an authentic academic experience to Div1 football players [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Lion Rooter [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:56:15 01/01/25 Wed I read the James Madison football roster - most of the players have these majors: "Sport and Recreation Management" and "Professional and Continuing Education" - seems highly suspect to me. Don't seem to see similar majors in the Ivy rosters. I had a doctor who said that an Ivy athletes had to be both good at their sport and very good at time management - which obviously helps you in your professional life for sure. I agree with earlier poster who said it is not where you go but what you do with your opportunity - academic and later in life. I attended 3 colleges in Canada previous to Morningside Hts - where Columbia admins said they had a high respect for (including high school) but I found my experience, engagement with professors & classmates etc much more enlightening than up North. Some folk might feel that we, Ivy grads and the school, are self important or self appointed elite but honestly I think that might come from the cankerous worm of envy. Finally I am so proud of our football squad - after following them for more than 3 decades -- they are a great representation for our school and I am also grateful for their efforts esp. as some students (or hangers on) are NOT good reps for our school. The Columbia Ivy football champs rang the bell at the NY Stock Exchange for pete's sake! Happy New Year to all on this board - even some of the more vituperative ones ! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: What Will Unfold for Today's Ivy League Students in A Few Decades? Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:54:57 01/03/25 Fri I said in a couple of posts above that I believe the Ivy League offers an incredible undergraduate experience (not education) that is very difficult to find elsewhere. That is not because the courses at other colleges are not just as good, but because the students are not. My college and early-to-mid-20's friends have traveled far and wide over the last few decades, a varied diaspora of adventure and experience. Some are hugely successful in the traditional ways that society defines success, some are decidedly not. But here we are, a collection of men and women who were virtually identical at age 17, a bunch of ambitious strivers hoping to get somewhere in the world. Most did to a large degree, some became genuine movers and shakers, a few did not move or shake meaningfully. As has been observed and noted on this board many times, the undergraduate student body at today's eight Ivy League schools is not like the kids with whom I went to college. The vast majority of us were grateful to be there. I said above that, while my best friend turned down Cornell for UVa because his father asked him to save money, I would have crawled on my hands and knees to attend my first choice college. Today's Ivy students seem so angry. They actively resent school administrations. I mean, sure, we alumni resent our alma maters for not sending our football champion to the FCS playoffs -- strike that -- but most of us still have affection for our schools. These kids do not. Read the editorials in our eight student newspapers. These kids are p--sed off. I wonder where they will be at age 40 and age 50. Still hating their alma maters? (Annual giving rates are down significantly at all eight Ivy universities, including Princeton and Dartmouth, the two outliers.) More to the point, what is the effect upon the average Ivy League student from spending four years surrounded by other high achievers who are not grateful in the least to be on an Ivy campus? My peers had the incredible good fortune of graduating from college near the beginning of the greatest bull market in the history of capitalism. That has shaped most of our careers and our lives. Today's students -- who knows what awaits them? But I'll hazard a guess that, coming out of college hating your alma mater and resenting the society around you is not a formula for (traditional) success or lifelong happiness. These kids are the luckiest 17-year-old's in the world. About half of them are going to one of the best fifteen universities in America absolutely free. ABSOLUTELY FREE. And they're angry. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: IvySportsJunkie [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:51:31 01/02/25 Thu While I am strong supporter of the uniqueness of the Ivy League student-athlete experience, I have found that football players can get a similar educational experience at a number of the most academically selective FBS programs. I recently experienced this when a local athlete selected Stanford over the Ivy League. He stated that his primary reason was that it was easier to be an engineering or computer science major when playing for Stanford. I was curious so I looked up Stanford’s football roster and discovered that 70 percent of their football players who have declared majors were in engineering, computer science or biology fields and only 30 percent were in the humanities. This is much higher than the Ivy League. In turn, I asked some Stanford student athletes how this has evolved. They noted there are four reasons for this. First, all Stanford student athletes are required to enroll in summer classes, which gives them one extra semester. Second, many athletes use a redshirt year to allow them a fifth year or two additional semesters. This allows the student athletes to take dramatically reduced load during the fall football season semesters. Third, Stanford football has created their 12th Man Summer Jobs Program that generates 70 summer internships mostly for tech firms in Silicon Valley with flexibility to participate in rigorous summer workouts. Finally, Stanford is located in Silicon Valley, which is the hotspot for engineering, computer science and venture capital. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Lurker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:10:24 01/02/25 Thu I stand corrected If only sonny-boy was 2” taller I could have saved a ton of cash! Btw - internships can be a great competitive advantage in competing with NIL money and several schools come up far short of Stanford’s program [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Stanford Summer School Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:18:41 01/02/25 Thu ISJ, I think your back-of-the-envelope method of measuring the rigor of a football roster's college education (counting the engineering, computer science or physical science majors relative to the humanities) is a very reasonable shorthand for who is getting a real education. Congratulations to Stanford for putting together so many options for their athletes to take real classes and tough majors. I imagine that the Ivy League would be loathe to permit summer classes just for athletes, although if standard NARP students could take them as well, it might pass muster with the powers that be. Stanford's an amazing place. What they have built just since World War II is unprecedented in education at any level anywhere. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:18:02 01/03/25 Fri Thanks for research/investigation on Stanford football. This is the pragmatic "out of the box thinking "concerning sports that is needed from the IL to manage the new world of NIL and possibly even becoming relevant again on a national level in football. Another observation. Navy and Army have shown that they can compete on a FBS level with serious academics and on top of that a very disciplined lifestyle for their athletes. Why not the IL? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:09:13 01/03/25 Fri Because they don't want to be relevant. Would the FCS playoff proposal not come from an HYP football player, it never would have carried. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: The Fairer Sex Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:40:41 01/03/25 Fri I'm not saying you're wrong but, to be fair, the FCS playoff proposal was pushed by an HYP football player after being initiated by a Brown softball player. Let's give the lady her due. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Stanford Athletics Author: 2Coasts [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:11:53 01/03/25 Fri Stanford’s academic calendar is four quarters, not semesters. I think this has some advantage re: athletes schedules. “Summer” school is available for all students and course options reflect that. It is remarkable the number of Stanford athletes who are able to obtain degrees in lab intensive majors. Of course, I remember a few years ago when an EE major basketball player was flown to Seattle because his Prof insisted he complete a certain lab with no extension granted. He got there in time to play. But, the issues facing Stanford and Cal today have to do with insane 3000 mile travel, late to the party NIL strategy and more rigorous transfer admissions standards than the majority of power two or four or whatever it is schools. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Stanford Athletics Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:30:26 01/04/25 Sat To be fair, Stanford cares less about the big money sports than most power 4 schools. They love getting attention from their Golf/Tennis/Baseball alumni of renown. They are always in play for the Learfield because they actually field lots of teams unlike most power 4 schools. They did try to shut a few of them down a few years ago and got hit hard by alumni/student potential lawsuits. This is the challenge faced by donor-funded teams rather than market-funded programs. If you try to shut down a wrestling program which has a dedicated endowment, you can find yourself in hot water with a livid donor. But if you fund your program with ticket sales and media rights... you can direct your donors to NIL and facilities, rather than coaching salaries, team travel and uniforms. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: IvySportsJunkie [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:27:52 01/03/25 Fri Good points, 2Cents. It will be interesting to see if the percentage of the Stanford football players majoring in the sciences goes down due to the extra travel associated with participation in the ACC Conference. While summer school is available to all students, Stanford has all its incoming freshmen student athletes take summer school. I do not believe that many incoming freshmen Ivy athletes take summer school. Dartmouth is the only Ivy school that requires all of its football players to take one session of summer classes. Dartmouth has its student athletes take summer school after they have completed either their freshmen or sophomore academic years. While Stanford has maintained its rigorous academic standards for its athletes, their football and basketball teams clearly have been adversely impacted by the transfer portal and NIL. On Stanford’s 2025 football roster, it shows a total of only 3 transfer players, who previously played at Yale, Northwestern and Washington. Historically, it has been difficult for undergraduate and graduate transfer students to secure admissions into the school. In order to be more competitive, Stanford is increasing its NIL commitment and making it easier for athletes to get access postbaccalaureate opportunities. Clay Patterson, a former All-Ivy Yale defensive lineman, is an example of this increased admissions flexibility for postbaccalaureate transfers. Clay has enrolled at Stanford as a non-degree seeking student, while playing for the Cardinal team. He is only taking classes in entrepreneurship, business and finance at Stanford. I do not believe that this non-degree option is available for undergraduate student athlete transfers. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:33:42 01/03/25 Fri Stanford of course famously planned to cut 11 of its 36 varsity sports in 2020 before alumni came up with the cash to save them. That was a frightening harbinger of the future of college sports. Is it all back to normal back on the Farm? No harm, no foul? All is forgiven? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: 2Coasts [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:08:19 01/03/25 Fri Depends on the alum you speak to and the sport he played. But the AD who previously was universally viewed as top notch definitely took a hit. This is the university with the most NCAA titles. This is the university whose athletes frequently win more Olympic medals than most countries. Minor sports are important on the Farm. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: Drew2411 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:54:35 01/03/25 Fri I find it interesting that this board talks about the Ivy League like it is one unit. It is not - HYP are on 1 level. Those schools carry weight nationally and internationally. Wharton carries massive weight. Columbia depends on state of NYC and how wacky the administration and students are. Plus going to college in NYC is an acquired taste. Dartmouth, Brown and Cornell on another lower level. And that is undeniable. And I for one would pick UVA over Cornell 100 out of 100 times. Great undergrad business school, exceptional law school, strong alumni network and the coeds are far, far superior. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Harvard WR transfer Cooper Barkate transfers to Duke Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:43:54 01/05/25 Sun Fair point. The first of the lower 5 to realize that there may be advantages to fleeing the consortium than staying will cause a tsunami in public opinion. If people don't start realizing that the bad actors on campus are hurting the reputations of all 8 schools... it could come sooner than people think. Scales are falling from peoples' eyes all over the west. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]