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Subject: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: Ivy Inquisitor [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 19:39:08 03/15/25 Sat Today Ivy Madness lived up to its brand! Congratulations to Harvard for winning the Ivy League Championship and auto bid to the NCAA Tournament. This was a thrilling game. Columbia missed a final three point shot on the final seconds. This is Harvard’s first NCAA tournament appearance since 2007. Columbia and Princeton will now have to wait. It will be a crime if Princeton and Columbia aren’t selected to join Harvard. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: The NCAA selection committee has a long rap sheet Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:28:58 03/15/25 Sat [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: SpuytenDuyvil76 (Mystified) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:44:25 03/15/25 Sat Didn't Columbia already have Ivy championsip by dint of overall record in regular season? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: SpuytenDuyvil76 (Frustrating) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:52:06 03/15/25 Sat The Lionesses have the hustle, grit, the right moves under the basket, but their shooting percentage ain't doing it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Regular and Tournament Champions Author: Ivy Inquisitor [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:51:05 03/16/25 Sun I’m not entirely sure, but I think the “official” Ivy basketball champion goes to the top regular season team. Conference tournament champion gets the NCAA auto bid. Lady Lions can attest to that. As they won regular season “championship” in 2023 but didn’t get a spot in the NCAA Tournament. Same is true for The Tigers 2022 team. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Regular and Tournament Champions Author: MFK [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:05:57 03/16/25 Sun Columbia tied for the regular season Championship in 2023. Princeton ran the table in 2022. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Regular and Tournament Champions Author: Ivy Inquisitor (Clarification) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:50:48 03/16/25 Sun I should’ve clarified my prior comment. It was the Princeton Men’s Basketball that won the 2022 Ivy regular season championship but didn’t win the league tournament. As a result, they played in the NIT. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: Ivy Patriot [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:00:10 03/16/25 Sun The 14-game tournament winner is the Ivy League champion. The two-game winner is the tournament champion. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: SpuytenDuyvil76 (verily) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:03:20 03/17/25 Mon AO, Beg to differ. The men's lax game is completely different from the women's: different rules, different equipment, same ball. The women's BB game is virtually the same as the men: same rules, same equipment, same court, different ball. Within the universe of women's collegiate basketball Ivy women are achieving something noteworthy, which the men can't seem to replicate. If you want to talk about relative competitiveness between the two, I think it will be a relatively convoluted argument. Sure, if the measure were straight out competition between the men's and women's champ of any given conference, no contest. But that's not the point. The point is that against all the available, organized talent within the respective basketball universes, the Ivy women are achieving at a greater rate than the men. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:54:04 03/17/25 Mon Since this has come up before in various contexts, I can do the long version or the short version. Looking around at the receptive visages, let’s try the short version. There’s far more $$$$ in men’s bball than women’s. Let us just suppose the Big Four allocate their resources to follow the money, while many of the Ivies allocate THEIR resources “equitably” among all their varsity teams (for whatever reason). Then, relative to the remainder of Division I, wouldn’t the Ivies’ mens’ results probably seem less successful than the womens’ ? Discuss. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:23:10 03/16/25 Sun Harvard in- well done Columbia - should be Princeton- no way [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:54:36 03/16/25 Sun Charlie Creme and I disagree with you, not so much because of the Tigers’ strength (although they now have two more over NCAA teams) but the recent stumbling of the reasonable alternatives, especially Va Tech. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: Tiger81 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:59:55 03/16/25 Sun You called it Joisey: Tigers along with Lions make the First Four vs. Washington and Iowa State respectively as #11 seeds and Harvard is a #10 vs. Michigan State. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: Tiger81 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:17:18 03/16/25 Sun Oops: Tigers will play ISU and Lions will play U-dub [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: CC89 (Semantics...hurts) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:33:14 03/16/25 Sun Harvard WBB social media and individual players in interviews keep referring to themselves as "Ivy Champs". That's not correct as Columbia earned that title over a 14-game season. I wish the IL was stricter and clearer with their terminology. Harvard earned the automatic bid by winning the ILT but they are not Ivy Champs. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: SpuytenDuyvil76 (in lumine tuo) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:43:20 03/17/25 Mon Columbia Women's Basketball team are the Ivy League champions. In sole possession of the title, they have co-held the prior two years. In the post season play, the Lions narrowly lost the Ivy Tournament to a highly worthy Harvard team, the only one to beat them in regular season play. The NCAA selection committee saw fit to include Columbia, along with Harvard and an also worthy Princeton team, in March Madness, the play-off system for college basketball's ultimate national championship. Columbia's athletic website confirms the Lions opening opponent will be U of Washington. "Columbia picked up five wins over teams in this year's NCAA Tournament field and advanced to the Ivy League Tournament Championship Game for the third time in the last four years." https://clk.gocolumbialions.com/e/es?s=431263&e=10467&elqTrackId=119d34c998c845f78c2844083071aa65&elq=66ce8d18f8904ed8a506d2f9cc18f109&elqaid=181&elqat=1&elqak=8AF599F47DE1B6544016CAA29790C13C0472B07FE944B6F5456DF8FCD303D7500A54 Good luck and go Lions! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:17:34 03/17/25 Mon 3/7 Ivy teams in NCAA tourney Takes the sting out of being league champion and one year and not winning the tournament- so no bid (not directed at Columbia so hold your ire). What are the women doing right that the men aren't (1/7 seemingly forever). For the men win the tournament or else. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: C89 (Ancient 8) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:02:20 03/17/25 Mon last i checked there were 8 IL BB teams [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:44:19 03/17/25 Mon DOGE at work. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: It's Not Even Apples to Oranges Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:41:02 03/17/25 Mon M3, Whether there are 7 teams in the Ivy League or 8, there is no comparability at all between placing three teams into the NCAA women's tournament and only one team into the men's. It is often said that men's/boys' lacrosse and women's/girls' lacrosse are two completely different sports that happen to use the same ball. In terms of qualifying for their respective NCAA tournaments, men's and women's basketball are two completely different sports. And they don't even use the same ball. As you know, the women use a smaller, lighter ball to account for their smaller, DJT-sized hands. The Ivy League cannot realistically hope to be a two-bid conference on the men's side. Our self-imposed academic restrictions make that impossible. The women's field is much, MUCH weaker than the men's. In terms of on-the-court competitiveness, the NCAA women's tournament should really have a 32-team bracket. But for the sake of political correctness, the NCAA matched the men's size of 64. And then to add to the ridiculousness, when the men went to 68, the women went right along even though 64 was already too large. Don't compare the Ivies' three bids on the women's side to our sole Yale bid on the men's side. Apples to oranges. Or more aptly, it's like comparing apples to tomatoes. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: It's Not Even Apples to Oranges Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:20:50 03/17/25 Mon "The Ivy League cannot realistically hope to be a two-bid conference on the men's side. Our self-imposed academic restrictions make that impossible." The women are subject to the same academic restrictions as the men There are 351 NCAA Division I (1A) women's basketball programs and 352 men's basketball programs. What else is going on $$$ ? as per joisey? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Women’s Ivy Madness Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:03:49 03/17/25 Mon M3 — See my response to SD76 above. As it’s already the short version, I won’t repeat. [Applause of thousands of cheering extras.] I’d like to thank the Academy…… [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Continuation of the Lacrosse, Men's versus Women's Basketball Tournament Subthread Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:21:52 03/17/25 Mon Spuyten Duyvil76, I'm sorry that I missed your reply to my post immediately above about the difference between men's and women's lacrosse, compared to the difference between men's and women's basketball. My response to your reply is along the lines of what Joisey has already said (up the thread, after your reply) but I would go further. You have focused on the size of the court and the height of the basket in basketball. Sure, those are the same between the men and the women. I was not talking about the size and height of the basket. I was referring to the larger money and feeder ecosystems within which the NCAA tournaments exist. There are three enormous differences between men's and women's college basketball: (1) Money (as Joisey said) (2) The size and quality of the high school player pool, relative to the number of college athletic departments which sponsor women's basketball (3) The academic qualifications of the high school player pool, which affects the Ivy League in particular because of our self-imposed AI rules I've got to jump right now to take care of some work. I'll be back in a few hours, but you can extrapolate from my three points above. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Continuation of the Lacrosse, Men's versus Women's Basketball Tournament Subthread Author: SpuytenDuyvil76 (verily) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:00:55 03/18/25 Tue Thanks AO. You took the time to seek out my comment, which somehow got misaligned, as I intended to respond to your apples vs oranges comment. (How'd that happen?!) Yes, I was contending the lax games are fundamentally different, while basketball essentially the same for both genders. I can understand the view that the men's game is so much more developed such that competition levels that much higher, so that the academic requirement of the IL hinders the Ivy men's competitiveness. My contention is that within the universe of women's Basketball-which is all that there is-the Ivy women would appear to be more consistently competitive vs the men. At the moment at least, the women are doing better than the men within their respective spheres. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Continuation of the Lacrosse, Men's versus Women's Basketball Tournament Subthread Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:38:56 03/20/25 Thu But to An Observer's point, there are also cultural factors at play here, too. Given the fact that a potential pro career in women's basketball doesn't have the same lottery potential as the NBA, the fallback of an Ivy education is a much bigger carrot to talented women's basketball players who benefit from the Ivy finaid wars. Plus the redshirt/transfer portal/grad option is available for those who want it, see Kaitlyns Davis and Chen. There were 2 Ivies drafted by the WNBA last year (Hsu, Davis), and one more probably this year (Turner), if not 2 (Chen). While Miye Oni made a sort of history being drafted in 2019, the last NBA Ivy draftee before him was Jerome Allen in 1995. Without serious NIL, Ivy Men's Basketball will continue to fall backwards relative to the rest of NCAA Division 1. But then again, we are probably looking at 1980 all over again. Enjoy the NCAA D1 Tournament this year and next... when the CBS/Turner rights expire, don't be surprised if the next version of the college basketball postseason doesn't feature AQs from all "Division I" schools. Get ready for the "College Basketball Playoffs." It's coming. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: A New Thougt Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:37:10 03/17/25 Mon Among the compexities of everything as the post-season careens along, I stumbled across a factoid I honestly thought we’d never see. The Tigers’ six straight NCAAs ties the record of the Penn men(Dick Harter and Chuck Daly) from 1970-75, a huge accomplishment in the days before the AI. they certainly have the personnel to make a run at seven next year. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: A New Thougt Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:42:47 03/17/25 Mon Penn had some great teams in that stretch. But I am not following you. What are you saying is the huge accomplishment regarding the AI? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: A New Thougt Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:20:49 03/17/25 Mon The Ivies were all essentially free to admit whatever basketball players they wished, and still one program was remarkably able to win the 14-game tournament six years running. Of course, this was also the period when Carril started to refer to the Princeton admission office as Heartbreak Hotel. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Who won what six years running? Author: Valmas (Stoic) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:30:23 03/17/25 Mon [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A New Thought Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:55:25 03/17/25 Mon Not that difficult: Penn’s men NCAAs 1970-76 Princeton’s women NCAAs 2018-19, 2022-25 (two postseasons out for COVID) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Thank you, but I'm a nitpicker. Author: Valmas (Stoic) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:29:24 03/18/25 Tue Not really 'six years running' but 6 consecutive possible NCAA tournament appearances. And, I'm sorry that I was late in reading your earlier statement on this, wherein you listed the six straight men's tournament appearances by Penn which actually began at the end of the 69-70 season and ran till the end of the 74-75 season. Carril won the NIT in 75 and came back to win the league championship and NCAA tournament bid the following two years with Billy Omeltchenko. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A New Thougt Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:30:22 03/17/25 Mon And you think, therefore, they all fished in the same academic pool pre-AI? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A New Thought Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:26:47 03/18/25 Tue Just to rereclarifyclarify, my only assertion was that all the schools were FREE to fish in the same academic pool. (Dartmouth has great teams in the ‘50s, for example, and Cornell and Columbia in the ‘60s.) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: A New Thought Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:25:55 03/19/25 Wed Yes, and some fished a lot deeper than others. There was/is more than one factor in relative Ivy basketball competitiveness. But what I took to be your original observation that it was more difficult to win 6 consecutive titles pre-AI than after its use is exactly the opposite of what, in my opinion, is the case. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]