Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- Unofficial Chris Cornell Forum

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Date Posted: 17:24:57 01/26/06 Thu
Author: lump
Subject: Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco!
In reply to: Iymlad 's message, "Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco!" on 17:17:32 01/26/06 Thu

You guys lost me at the filthy animal sex. lol. j/k

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- 23, 17:35:29 01/26/06 Thu [1]

"How should one interpret Eve's consumption of the apple and the affect it had on humanity? Hmmmm ... deep thoughts from a sicko."

I always interpreted it as a metaphor for the birth of knowledge/consciousness.

Most cultures have a similar myth.

Do you mean, in a negative or positive light? I say positive. As alluring as the Garden of Delight may be, it doesn't sound terribly interesting, which is what really matters at the end of the day. Most of the time. As much as I envy my dogs on occasion, running and chasing eachother or spending 2 hours chewing on a rawhide in complete bliss, I don't really want to trade places.

As far as what separates us from the rest of life on the planet, that's a tough one. I think it primarily comes down to memory and forethought - the fact that we don't live in the present, where every other being on the planet ONLY lives in the present. Memories are fleeting, at best, in even the most intelligent non-human animals, and thoughts of the future are no more complicated that the drooling that anticipates the treat. This is what complicates our lives the most, I think. It's what enriches them as well.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- lump, 17:43:51 01/26/06 Thu [1]

Oh, I think you have that Eve part all wrong.

The older the writings of the bible, the more and more anti-woman it gets. Our versions have been edited so distortingly and looked at so many times that they are not at ALL what they once were. From what I've read on the older bible stuff - it's definately negative. Like it's all the woman's fault. God didn't have anything to do with it.....which kinda creates a full circle of blaim doesn't it. Similar to the Koran, woman were dirty creatures not so above a pig. There's a great website on all this my Dad visits - I'll get it for you - much interesting reading there on these things.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or crazy! -- lump, 17:48:02 01/26/06 Thu [1]

sex

(I just wanted to break that up)

No really - I strike that about the Koran - that was someone else's words and I've never actually read it so I don't really know that for sure. But I'll still get you that website.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or crazy! -- Leo, 17:57:01 01/26/06 Thu [1]

this is in response to Jes, hope it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. although the iym/twan convo is certainly intriguing as well and i may have to reply to that later)

first, i'm sorry to hear about your parents, i think its tough on the children of a divorcing couple at any age.

now onto the roy business - there are a couple of things you said that were thoughts going through my head previously. I too was looking for an excuse to leave Rob, I found myself wishing he would cheat, even hit me, anything so I could kick his ass out. Now I realize, my own happiness, sanity and peace of mind is more than enough reason to want out of a relationship. Don't sell yourself short.

I also cried myself to sleep (and during other activities) that went completely unnoticed. I was miserable. If a guy loved his woman, how the fuck could he not notice she was crying? How the fuck could he not notice she's hanging on a thread? saying he loves you means shit in my book. I got told I was loved constantly, was sent flowers, given gifts, but never given the time of day, my thoughts and wants were never a priority. I hope the chick he's with now can be bought, cause I couldn't be. btw, he's getting married, lol, what an idiot.

Another thing you said that stuck out to me was the stranger comment. There were so many times I asked Rob to treat me like a stranger, cause that'd be much better.

do it for yourself jes and for nate, he deserves a happy mom too.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- 23, 17:57:24 01/26/06 Thu [1]

I agree with what you're saying, lump, but I would say that is the specific cultural spin on the myth. Sort of the texture or color overlaying the substance. Like the church took this nugget of truth and decided to use it as an opportunity to talk shit about the ladies, 'cause, you know, they were going to get to that at the meeting next Wednesday, but they might as well throw in on the Eden myth thing while they're thinking of it.

That nugget of truth, I think, is about leaving behind the Garden (the place of animalistic bliss where there was no morality or conscience) and entering into the complicated realm of people-hood and self-awareness and good and evil and all that craziness.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- a light, 07:10:58 01/27/06 Fri [1]

I'm with all the others on this, Jes.

I know you've been with him many years and it's hard to imagine living another way. Maybe this situation can go on and on, and you'll continue to adapt to it.

But I do think you can live a better life, and I think that you sound just about ready for a real change.

This might seem cut and dried, but yes, you have to get rid of him. Prepare yourself in any ways that you can, and do it. Don't feel guilty, don't hold hope for it getting better, don't feel you need any easily explainable reason. This relationship has been a source of frustration and unhappiness for you for a long, long time.

There's no point trying to second-guess his behavior, or even your own right now. It's very hard to see the situation when you're in the middle of it, but believe me-- once he's gone, and you've given yourself some time to adjust (which might be difficult and painful at first, but you can take it), you're going to be able to look back on the relationship with a clear mind and heart. And I'll bet you anything in the world you want, you'll be saying "Why the Hell did I put up with that for so long?!?"

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- Iymlad, 09:43:39 01/27/06 Fri [1]

The older the writings of the bible, the more and more
>anti-woman it gets."

I would say that all thoss are "new interpretations". We can't use any christian versions. It goes back to the Hebrew and there are hidden meanings in the letters and numerology (things not transfered in translations). I don't believe for one moment that the original intent was to portray women negatively.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- Iymlad, 09:38:43 01/27/06 Fri [1]

"I always interpreted it as a metaphor for the birth of
knowledge/consciousness."

Right. That seems like a reasonable interpretation to me as well. So then what does the snake represent?

"Most cultures have a similar myth."

Please recommend some for compare/contrast. I found this site but there is so much there ... http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

"Do you mean, in a negative or positive light? I say
>positive."

I'm not sure what this is refering to.

"As far as what separates us from the rest of life on
>the planet, that's a tough one. I think it primarily
>comes down to memory and forethought"

same as consciousness, right? So the consumption of the apple represents what sepparates us, yes?

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- 23, 10:26:18 01/27/06 Fri [1]

>Right. That seems like a reasonable interpretation to
>me as well. So then what does the snake represent?

Well, the obvious answer is Lucifer, but then that begs the question of what Lucifer represents. I saw you mention his name the other day as one you like, and I think you may like it for the same reason I do. He's the light bringer, he represents the catalyst that brought consciousness to humanity. There are many theories as to what that catalyst actually was, ranging from aliens to the gods to hallucinogenic drugs to evolutionary forces to agriculture (I personally think it's a combination of a few - consciousness is a byproduct of the evolutionary drive to have larger brains so we could protect ourselves from the teeth and claws out there and find a niche in a crowded ecosystem, but I also think hallucinogenic plants or fungus may have had something to do with it as well - spurring the contemplation of our place in the universe which birthed religion and spirituality).

>Please recommend some for compare/contrast. I found
>this site but there is so much there ...
>http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

Well, in Greek mythology, Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gave that power to humanity. As punishment to humanity, Zeus gave the box to Pandora, who opened it (because of curiosity) and all the problems of the world were released upon humanity.

The African Bushmen have a similar myth involving fire. They lived underground with all of the animals peacefully, but were let out of a hole in the ground (under a great tree) and were allowed to live on the surface under the condition that they didn't build any fires. Night came, and fear and cold along with it. The humans built a fire, which scared off the animals and severed their peaceful relationship.

>"Do you mean, in a negative or positive light? I say
>>positive."
>
>I'm not sure what this is refering to.

I'm saying, I think this birth of consciousness is a positive thing. It is cast in a negative light in Genesis - that we betrayed YHWH and were cast out of the garden of delight and ruined our lives of innocence and bliss, but I disagree. Though we may have been living a life of innocence and bliss, it was not a life we could appreciate without consciousness and knowledge of time.

>same as consciousness, right? So the consumption of
>the apple represents what sepparates us, yes?

I think so. It's the forbidden fruit that resulted in our expulsion from the garden, a choice not made by any other animal (choice representing something else here).

There's another interesting myth involving an apple and the gods:

http://paganwiccan.about.com/cs/discordian/a/goldenapple.htm

I don't like her description of the "moral" of the myth - I think it's closer to the genesis myth. The apple was a temptation that created discord among a group of people. A forbidden fruit that took away innocence and replaced it with strife (war, in this case).

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- Iymlad, 11:31:33 01/27/06 Fri [1]

"Well, the obvious answer is Lucifer,"

No, no, no. The whole Lucifer thing is recent history. I actually did a little research on this recently and it seems that the introduction of "Lucifer" was a misinterpretation of a reference to the Planet Venus and/or a Summerian King. The Torah does not (as I understand) describe a personality that matches our present Lucifer/Satan/Fallen Angel. That's all christian stuff, and I really don't have interest in their (mis)interpretations.

http://theosophy.org/tlodocs/hpb/HistoryOfAPlanet.htm

"There are many theories as to what that catalyst actually was,ranging from aliens to the gods to hallucinogenic drugs to evolutionary forces to agriculture..."

I'm impressed that you have all this stuff at the tip of your tongue. I was only recently exposed to some of the above theories.

>Well, in Greek mythology, Prometheus stole fire from
>the gods and gave that power to humanity. As
>punishment to humanity, Zeus gave the box to Pandora,
>who opened it (because of curiosity) and all the
>problems of the world were released upon humanity.

I am quite familiar with this myth. But I woulnd't equate the fire with the apple, at least with the assumption that the apple represents the introduction of consciousness to humanity. I see the fire as the wisdom to manipulate the material world. Perhaps one can equate Prometheus with the snake however. Thinking about it now ... it does seem that the consumption of the apple is analagous to the opening of Pandora's Box (oh how I love saying that).

>The African Bushmen have a similar myth involving
>fire.

Any leads for me tracking down a version of that myth?

>I'm saying, I think this birth of consciousness is a
>positive thing.

Ah, I agree that it should not be presented in the negative light is often is. It is what it is, positive and negative sides to it.

>There's another interesting myth involving an apple
>and the gods:

VERY nice. I had forgotten about THAT golden apple. I actually use the golden apple symbology for a children's group that I help run ... I'll have to brush up on that. Thanks!

>I don't like her description of the "moral" of the
>myth.

I certainly do not agree with her moral either.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- 23, 12:08:53 01/27/06 Fri [1]

>http://theosophy.org/tlodocs/hpb/HistoryOfAPlanet.htm

That was a really intersting link. I had always associated Lucifer with Mercury, not Venus. Mercury being the Roman version of Hermes, who fills a similar place in the pantheon as Lucifer (in his role as the light-bringer, not his role as the lord of hell).

>Any leads for me tracking down a version of that myth?

Here's a pretty good one:

http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_14.html

>VERY nice. I had forgotten about THAT golden apple.
>I actually use the golden apple symbology for a
>children's group that I help run ... I'll have to
>brush up on that. Thanks!

It's one of my favorites. I'm a fan of Discordianism.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- Iymlad, 12:29:30 01/27/06 Fri [1]

(in his role as the
>light-bringer, not his role as the lord of hell).

But does Lucifer (not as a name for Venus but light bringer and/or "fallen angel") have a place outside christianity (i.e. Judiasm, Greek/Roman)? I still don't have an answer to that ...

>Here's a pretty good one:
>
>http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_14.html

Perfect ... thanks.

>It's one of my favorites. I'm a fan of Discordianism.

I was unaware or the term. The name brings anarchy to my mind. Thanks again.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- 23, 13:16:18 01/27/06 Fri [1]

>I was unaware or the term. The name brings anarchy to
>my mind. Thanks again.

If you're bored:

http://www.discordian.com/

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- Iymlad, 13:27:57 01/27/06 Fri [1]

IF I'm bored!!! DUDE, I'm reading your posts aren't I! :)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I'm either retarded or phsyco! -- 23, 13:36:02 01/27/06 Fri [1]

So very true.

I'm surprised I don't put myself to sleep half the time I'm typing this nonsenaa0aienaotn;el/. lk nlk l./////////////////////////////////////////////////

(sorry, head fell on the keyboard)

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