Well, he probably thought he had to -- The Quorum Of Twelve

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Date Posted: 20:54:51 06/14/08 Sat
Author: Chani
Subject: Well, he probably thought he had to
In reply to: anyasbuttmonkey 's message, "I'm still not sold on Lee's act of forgiveness..." on 20:15:43 06/14/08 Sat

Besides, not so long ago, Lee himself was willing to commit a genocide and would have if Helo hadn't prevented them from doing it.

Lee may have learned a thing or two about self-destruction and self-preservation...

As Gaius said, they all might just love living. Too bad they ended on a dead planet. :- )

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[> [> [> There's a big difference between what happened in Season 3... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 23:16:59 06/14/08 Sat [1]

... and the Cylon's original attack on the Colonies.

The plan to use infected Cylons to wipe out the rest of them was retaliation - not only for the original attack, but for New Caprica. They were at war, and without wanting to sound all "eye for an eye", they were merely fighting back with the means at their disposal.

The Cylons planned and executed an attack on the Colonies with no seeming provocation other than, as Bender from Futurama would say, "to kill all humans". They set the ball rolling with that horrific act.

Its one thing to regret and deal with the knowledge that you almost wiped out a race of beings who had proven long ago that they would want nothing more than to see you dead. Its a whole other thing to follow through with said plans and show no regret or remorse.

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[> [> [> [> But that isn't a problme of showing remorse or regret -- Chani, 23:46:09 06/14/08 Sat [1]

Without Helo, Lee and the others would have carried on their plan and I doubt they would have felt any remorse either. When the Cylons attacked the Colonies they obviously thought they had good reasons, just like season 3 Lee who thought that destroying them all was the best solution to be safe. The Cylons thought that mankind didn't deserve to live.

Now they have obviously changed their mind but they are scared and think that they have to kill in order to not be killed.

Lee didn't make peace because Cylons would deserve to be forgiven. He isn't being magnanimous. I am not a fan of Lee but he obviously understood that shaking hands might be a better choice than a never ending war, than retaliation, hence his "it doesn't have to happen again". Sometimes attacking isn't the best defence.

It is a pragmatic choice, but also perhaps, on some level, he finally gets that the humanity must end the war to survive because trying to destroy the Cylons is like self-destruction (as Helo hinted in season 3 when he said it would be a "crime against humanity"), especially now that four familiar and even close people turned out to be Cylons...

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[> [> [> [> [> Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it wasn't the right choice... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 00:33:48 06/15/08 Sun [1]

Certainly ending the cycle of never-ending "potshots" between Cylon and Human can only benefit... I just damn well hope that either a) D'Anna and her cohorts start showing some remorse and try to make serious amends; or b) it all goes to hell in the next few episodes *because* the Cylons still won't accept that what they did was wrong. They've made noises about recognising the mistake, but they've made no move to qualify those with any actions pointing towards making amends - they've basically just gone "oops! My bad" and tried to brush it all under the rug and start over. The only ones who've tried to show the humans they are truly sorry are Caprica and Athena, and I just don't buy the rest of the Fleet being happy with an armistice just because the President's forgiven them. I know I wouldn't be.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> They shared the same goal -- Chani, 10:40:00 06/15/08 Sun [1]

now they have to face the same distress...I wonder where they'll go from there!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Its going to be jaw-droppingly interesting, to say the least... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 23:22:19 06/15/08 Sun [1]

And what's going to happen with the 1s, 4s and 5s?! I doubt they're going to stay out of it for long!

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[> [> [> [> Re: There's a big difference between what happened in Season 3... -- Esmerelda, 00:21:48 06/15/08 Sun [1]

I'm inclined to agree with ABM, but for slightly different reasons. What the humans (led by Lee and Roslin) were proposing was an attack that would have crippled the enemy that was chasing them through space hell bent on destroying them. Not an attack on people who might, one day, possibly, come back to pick a fight with them.

It was also an atack on a legitamate military target, the basestars and resurrection hubs. As far as we know, there is no such thing as civilian Cylons. There all part of the Cylon military machine. Military, IMO, is a fair target.

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[> [> [> [> [> I remember that discussion we had in Italy... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 00:47:54 06/15/08 Sun [1]

About whether or not bombing coffee shops on Caprica was the right move on Anders' part - the topic of "civilian Cylons" came up there too!

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: I remember that discussion we had in Italy... -- Esmerelda, 00:53:07 06/15/08 Sun [1]

The problem I had with that was the iconography of it, the bombing of *coffee shops*, which is a civillian space, even if there weren't any civillians in it at the time. It of course ended up forshadowing what happens on New Caprica, where Tigh wantes to use suicide bombers in the market, which would have inevitably killed civillians.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Even Anders (poor, sweet, dumb-as-a-bunch-of-really-stupid-rocks Anders) knew that was wrong... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 00:58:44 06/15/08 Sun [1]

But I (and Seema!) already expressed my willingness to do what Anders and his people did on Caprica :)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> It would have been interesting to see though -- Esmerelda, 01:13:50 06/15/08 Sun [1]

If Anders and Cheif would have continued to refuse, or if they'd have eventually done it. I've also always wondered what would have happened to Doc Cottle? Who was patching cylons up. Would he have been shot as a collaborator eventually? I'd almost like to have seen them going after Cottle, just for the verbal smackdown that made them shuffle away in shame.

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