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• Well if my opinion counts for much here...I'll just say I think you did a fantastic job, Mahri and Casey feels you did him proud. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 18:28:24 09/12/07 Wed
  • I think she would prefer 'did him proudly'. ;) (NT) -- Trac, 19:40:51 09/12/07 Wed
    • LOL - oh yea..if I did him than that must mean I have to do him and....hell I"m just gonna take myself to bed now - I seriously have a one track mind *g* (NT) -- Marilyn, 19:54:20 09/12/07 Wed
  • Absolutely, I had trouble keeping up with the discussion this week, but Mahri's questions were fantastic. Well done, lass! (NT) -- LadyPeggyB, 22:29:07 09/12/07 Wed
    • yep, for sure. I really had to think a lot, and that is good. I love to explore books this way. Think I'll re read the book as we go from here on, so many things that had skipped my mind. Of course, that isn't hard to do with this mind of mine... ^_^ (NT) -- bug, 06:42:40 09/13/07 Thu

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• Yes indeed, you've done a superb job here, Marilyn. Woe is me, though, as I haven't even started on my questions yet. YIKES, tomorrow's Thursday already. Better get my arse in gear! (NT) -- Elaine, 18:33:55 09/12/07 Wed
  • Thanks :-) You always do a wonderful job with questions Elaine..looking forward to it! And Cindy (ya Pa.M.I.P.) your opinion is worth more than I could even ever hope to have words for. It's your baby and I just wanted to do right by it :-) (NT) -- Marilyn, 19:59:17 09/12/07 Wed
    • You did just beautifully. :) Shee-it gurrll I don't know why y'all worry so much 'bout these questions. (NT) -- celtgirl, 21:27:23 09/12/07 Wed
      • It's 'cause we want to do right by you, dahl. (NT) -- Elaine, 05:02:27 09/13/07 Thu

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• (15-2) Maybe Love is quite literally killing two birds with one stone. Why not take out Casey and not even have to get his hands dirty. Let the Feds do all the dirty work instead. (15-3) Love is perhaps desperate enough to accept whatever conditions Pamela states, and the fact that she doesn't want Casey dead does not necessarily equate with not wanting Love, at least, I'm sure he could make that interpretation. As long as Pamela is warming up to Love is good enough, but only for now, not later. (NT) -- Denise, 18:42:32 09/12/07 Wed
  • I agree and just wanted to add that Love knew full well that Pamela loved Casey and he knows what kind of woman she is- loving, loyal etc., so he might have actually been suspicious if Pamela had all the sudden been ready to do anything he wanted- if he hadn't seen some emotional stuggle going on with her. And I still think his knowing he's getting Casey's wife is part of the fun for him- he wants to taunt Casey. (NT) -- susiej, 08:17:30 09/13/07 Thu

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• (16-1) Casey is no doubt thinking that maybe others have a sale price, but not him. I don't think he's making any connection to Pamela at this point, and the fact that she has been unfaithful, which is the point of Love's comment. (NT) -- Denise, 18:45:20 09/12/07 Wed

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• (17) Call me a cruel biatch, but I don't have a problem with Pamela's choice to rat out Love. He would have haunted her to the ends of the Earth if he still lived. MAHRI, great job on the questions! I'm always so impressed with the new ideas that come from such insightful questions. (NT) -- Denise, 18:50:13 09/12/07 Wed
  • This is why I asked the last question Denise...I too had no problem with her part in killing Love, but was sick to my tummy thinking about her infidelity to Casey. Obviously they are both major sins in the Catholic church (well I shouldn't just say the Catholic Church eh..sins all around, was just thinkng of Father Kevin *g*) Based on Pamela's & Fr. Kevin's reaction...murder is just a wee bit worse. So, I was curious, if y'all felt that way too and why...how do we justify murder but not adultery? (NT) -- Marilyn (), 18:55:09 09/12/07 Wed
    • To put it simply, both the infidelity and Love's set up were done out of love for Casey. The infidelity has and will continue to take a toll on their marriage, it's an issue of guilt for Pamela and lost trust between them. Love is a bad dude getting what he deserves, though I doubt Pamela wants his death hanging over her head. The end justifies the means? (NT) -- Denise, 19:10:43 09/12/07 Wed
      • I know I'm way out in left-field from the group here, but I have trouble thinking of what Pamela did with LH as 'infidelity'. I don't believe she had any feelings for him, she was backed into a corner and did what seemed necessary to protect her husband and herself. As to LH's fate, he got what he deserved, it's not like Pamela pulled the trigger or anything. Live by the sword, die by the sword; if LH thought he was so insulated that he was beyond touching, he was an idiot as well as a megalomaniac! (NT) -- LadyPeggyB, 22:37:51 09/12/07 Wed
        • I agree Peggy, I couldn't think of a better word at the time though. But no, I didn't feel it was infidelity either...I think that she felt she had no other choice and I didn't judge her for it. She was maybe unfaithful with her body but not her heart! (NT) -- Marilyn, 06:17:33 09/13/07 Thu
          • That's why I had the discussion with Cindy below. I didn't feel Pamela had anything to feel 'guilty' over. But then, I must be seeing things differently for some reason. (NT) -- LadyPeggyB, 10:23:30 09/13/07 Thu
            • I understand your point, and also believe she should not feel guilty over a selfless act to save her husband, but try to convince her of that?? (NT) -- Denise, 12:38:10 09/13/07 Thu
        • Well, I never used the word "infidelity" in my thinking about it. I just cringed at the thought of having sex with someone I didn't love. To me, infidelity is having a love affar with someone outside of your marriage bed. I thought Love was a ruthless SOB, and I had no problem with Pamela setting him up. She did not kill him herself, she freed Casey,,, and herself,,,,,,,,from him. He was obvioulsy going to take him out of the picture, then he thought he would posess Pamela wholly. He was too foolish to realize he never could. (NT) -- bug, 06:38:00 09/13/07 Thu
          • PS-- I stay in left field Peggy. I kinda like it here :-)) (NT) -- bug, 06:39:13 09/13/07 Thu
  • I was going to go and read all these and nicely post my answers at the bottom, but I have no problem with what she did to Hagerty either. I admire she has the smarts and spine to serve it up to the bastard in fact. Like Mari, her presence in his bed really upset me, and will probably stay in the corner of my mind for a long time, not unlike what I think will happen between Casey and Pamela. (NT) -- Sheila (), 07:17:33 09/13/07 Thu

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• 15-1) Not sarcasm, I think it was the truth. Love is big in Southie but he's still small potatoes compared to other politicos in Boston. As soon as he saw Pamela, I think he must have forged his ambitious plan, and of course she'd be mighty useful to him along the way. He was looking for a political position much bigger than what he currently had in Southie. But he had to be clean and respectable first. (15-2) Denise said it - Casey would just be collateral damage and Love would appear squeaky clean. (15-3) Yes, you'd think so. I'm guessing Haggerty, with that ego of his, was choosing to overlook that little proviso, thinking he had what it takes to smooth things over with Pamela later. (NT) -- Elaine, 19:20:17 09/12/07 Wed

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• 16-1) I don't think Casey is putting two and two together here yet. He's concentrating on the fact that some men, himself in particular, have scruples and are not for sale. Of the women who've sold out to Haggerty, he's likely aware that there've been mistresses in the man's life. Basically, I think that little statement went over his head because he was dealing with such fury over almost being murdered. Still, it's something that might have made an impression on him, something he filed away for future reference. (NT) -- Elaine, 19:25:16 09/12/07 Wed

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• 17-1) I was terribly disappointed ... that Pamela didn't do this sooner. Cold blooded murder is Haggerty's method. I think Pamela's actions are really self-defense. She knows both she and Casey will be next. She's also making retribution for Emma. I only wish she saw what he was capable of sooner before she got in so deep. Even so, though, I don't what other options she'd have had. When Casey's life was threatened, Haggerty knew he had her backed into a corner. He deserved a gangland style murder imho. (NT) -- Elaine, 19:32:14 09/12/07 Wed
  • i agree about Love- he needed to go and Pamela knew the way to make it happen not just for her own and Casey's sake( because eventually Pamela was going to get caught) but for all the other helpless people who couldn't get away from Love. I wonder why she even felt so bad- she thinks something like "she'd killed a man that once loved her" but I say no- he never really loved her- he wanted to own her, corrupt her- that's not love to me. (NT) -- susiej, 08:27:09 09/13/07 Thu

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• 17. Nope, I was fine because if she didn't have a part in it then he would have eventually tormented or killed her and Casey or those they love. Neither thing she did bothered me. (NT) -- Tracy, 19:43:25 09/12/07 Wed

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• First of all, Mahri, you did good, girl, just like we knew you would. You are da bomb :) Now, on to your wonderful questions. Chapt. 15) I think Love wants to be respectable on the surface, at least, there were then, and still are, many politicans with shady backgrounds and dealings. Many get where they are through their connections and influence, rather than any appeal to the people. 2) Love is looking for a way to get rid of Casey without having to do it himself. If the FBI or the Bassarellis take out Casey, Love can plead innocent to Pamela and thereby keep her (see question 3) I think Love is too egotistical to think this means Pamela still loves Casey. He may put it down to sentiment for a bygone love or simply her own scruples. (NT) -- Carla, 20:10:54 09/12/07 Wed

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• Chap 16 Q1) I think Casey is wondering just how many people Love has bought and I do think it may flit across his mind that Pamela is one of them, but he can't think about that now, he has to concentrate on dealing with Love. (NT) -- Carla, 20:13:10 09/12/07 Wed
  • That's what I thought too Carla - for maybe a split second, with the look on Love's face, Casey wondered just WHO might have been bought by Love. I think it was the 'alarm' bell that went off in Casey's head...he didn't have time to dwell on it and probably didn't want to anyway, but I think he doubted for a minute. (NT) -- Marilyn, 07:34:37 09/13/07 Thu
    • I agree- I think he does know what Love meant but Casey thinks it hasn't exactly happened yet- but that Love is threatening that it will. Casey seemed pretty uncomfortable standing outside and knowing Pamela was in there in her expensive clothes playing hostess. Didn't Casey ever wonder where all those clothes came from? Or did she hide them all at the love nest- yuck, ick. bleck! Hate that thought. (NT) -- susiej, 08:23:19 09/13/07 Thu
      • Nit-picky me was wondering about where she kept the clothes too. They were probably stored at the 'love nest", and I agree - yuck! There are no confrontations written in the book with regards to Casey asking Pamela about the new wardrobe and what has been happening in his absence. I can't imagine he doesn't have questions considering what he saw when he came upon Pamela at he party - all dressed up and acting like Love's perfect hostess. (NT) -- Denise, 10:12:22 09/13/07 Thu
        • On page 69 it says 'the little apartment in Brookline was filled with such things.' She leaves the clothes Love has bought for her there, she doesn't want those things anywhere near the place she lives with Casey. It's a flimsy wall, but nevertheless she is trying to keep the two sides of her life seperate. So Casey would never see those clothes. As for the white dress, well Casey would likely think she merely purchased herself a new dress. She's expected to be at Love's parties as an employee and Casey has no way of knowing if she's there playing hostess, which she isn't actually at this particular function. (NT) -- celtgirl, 11:06:08 09/13/07 Thu
          • yes, I know but Casey also knows Love wants her, is not the type to back off and she's spending a lot of time with him when her husband is far away- i don't think Casey would be human if it didn't bother him a bit, especially as he is so out of his element- he may doubt himself more than doubt her but he can tell that something's up with Pamela (NT) -- susiej, 11:19:29 09/13/07 Thu
            • Casey is in denial, he hates that she still works for Love, but in all honesty doesn't want to look too closely at the situation for fear of what he might find out. I don't think he acknowledges this consciously, but subconsciously it's there nitting at him. (NT) -- celtgirl, 11:25:54 09/13/07 Thu
              • you posted as I was- yes, he hates it. He didn't want her working for Jamie either- understandable since they have known feelings for each other. (NT) -- susiej, 11:30:35 09/13/07 Thu
              • Any man has got to have suspicions, yes, even if subconciously. I'm sure Love was already sporting a possessive look about him where Pamela was concerned, and his comment on how everyone has a price must have stung, even if Casey did not know the circumstances surrounding the comment. (NT) -- Denise, 12:34:38 09/13/07 Thu
            • I just had to add that it would be hard for most men- and Casey has had to see her do this already with Jamie another attractive, rich and powerful, older man. And then unlike Jamie, Love is all smug and makes this comment- It would take a strong confidance to not let that get under your skin from time to time. I'm just saying that while I know Casey isn't jealous, I still think it wasn't a completely unthought of thought when Robin tells him. It was there- Casey didn't want to see it. (NT) -- susiej (), 11:26:08 09/13/07 Thu

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• Chap 17 In terms of Pamela and Casey's future, choosing to set Love up is far less damaging to their relationship than choosing to sleep with Love. I do believe, that she did both as a last resort, though, knowing nothing else would save Casey's life. Guilt, however, is a funny thing, haunting you even when you know you did the only thing you could to save the one you love. I think such "sins" take a toll on the soul, whether they are justified or not. Was I upset that Pamela set Love up? No. I think the bastard deserved everything he got. How many people did he have killed and for far less noble a cause? The whole "eye-for-an-eye" thing is rather primitive and I'm against the death penalty, but some people really do not deserve to live, and Love was one of them. (NT) -- Carla, 20:16:34 09/12/07 Wed

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• Oh, just remembered something I wanted to say yesterday but forgot. It's interesting that the relationship between Mark Ryan and Love Haggerty is similar to the one between Matt Damon and Jack Nicholson in 'The Departed.' I know Cindy wrote this part of her story ages before that movie ever came out. Haggerty's eventual demise was a lot better than Nicholson's. (NT) -- Elaine, 20:17:14 09/12/07 Wed
  • That might be because I loosely based the relationship between Mark Ryan and Love on the real life duo of Whitey Bulger and John Connolly (and no that's not the same JC that I infamously disagreed with on the internet and who is one of my fave authors). This JC was a FBI agent. So I imagine that's what Mr. Scorcese had in mind too. (NT) -- celtgirl, 21:23:44 09/12/07 Wed
    • Fascinating. Great minds really do think alike. (NT) -- Elaine, 05:08:38 09/13/07 Thu
  • I thought exactly the same Elaine. Glad you mentioned and Cindy responded! (NT) -- Sheila, 07:20:30 09/13/07 Thu

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• I have to agree with Elaine, concerning CH.17. It was not murder, it was self defense. Anyway, she is not the one who killed him, she just told his secret. I think he got what he deserved and that she should not feel any guilt about it at all. I think the reason it is easier to accept her part in Love's death more than her adultery is because Love deserved what he got and Casey did not. (NT) -- Dana, 22:24:36 09/12/07 Wed
  • I love how you phrased it, Dana - Love deserved it but Casey did not. (NT) -- Elaine, 05:04:49 09/13/07 Thu
  • Oh very good Dana - I think that sums it up for me as well *Love deserved it but Casey did not* Though I didn't feel negative toward Pamela for sleeping with Love it did make me worry about Casey and their marriage. She didn't kill Love by her own hand but she didn't just tell his secret to anybody either..she knew what would happen. Both she & Fr. Kevin agree that this is basically like committing the act itself. It didn't bother me in least though. (NT) -- Marilyn, 06:15:02 09/13/07 Thu

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• Take a bow Mahri, you did good girl!! I am super impressed, especially as I was too chicken to do it. I know much I stress on the relatively straightforward Twilight questions, this is a lot scarier - yep I know I have a chicken stripe down my back!*g* (NT) -- Sheila, 07:23:38 09/13/07 Thu

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• Like most of you I had more trouble as I wrote about Pamela's infidelity, the arranging of the murder seemed the only conclusion for Pamela, the only way to end it for once and for all. I still remember writing that whole section, at about two AM up in the attic of my old house. But I don't think you can commit such an act, or set it in motion and not worry about it later. (Well at least Pamela can't, as anyone who has read the whole book knows). She really did feel at this point it was either Casey or Love, as Jamie says much later in the book 'not much in the way of choosing there'. (NT) -- celtgirl, 08:06:43 09/13/07 Thu
  • yes, I think that by plotting his death she proves to Casey that she had no regard for Love and that Casey was the reason for all of it- that she'd even do murder for him. I think it had to be this way. CINDY- I finally saw and answered your question down below. (NT) -- susiej (), 08:31:25 09/13/07 Thu
    • and the questions were great!!!!! (NT) -- susiej, 08:32:33 09/13/07 Thu

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• OK - time for me to jump in!>>> -- Lisser (), 10:00:18 09/13/07 Thu

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• Ladies - I'm not actually reading the book right now as I've read it several times recently ;-). But do know for absolutely sure that Love is dead? Like buried in the ground? Or are we assuming that this is the case. I honestly can't remember that bit of detail (NT) -- JaneH, 10:14:21 09/13/07 Thu
  • We didn't read about an open coffin and a funeral so I guess there is potential for some surprises if our illustrious author so chooses. (NT) -- Denise, 10:51:41 09/13/07 Thu
  • I asked the author about that myself- after all, i didn't see a newspaper headline or anything and she said she didn't either. (NT) -- susiej, 11:21:08 09/13/07 Thu
    • Hahaha - she's soooo helpful isn't she ;-) (NT) -- Marilyn, 11:24:29 09/13/07 Thu
      • Honestly, I mean *frill* I never saw no newspaper headlines. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 12:13:51 09/13/07 Thu
        • In the words of Sheila, "Bugger it!" (NT) -- Denise, 12:42:53 09/13/07 Thu