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Subject: constitutional amendment Author: Jeremy H [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 20:38:42 06/26/01 Tue So this is my 2 cents. I think the senator at large is a fantastic idea, but must be improved. I think that the senator at large position should be the FIRST of the elections and the winner should be president of the forum council. The way it is set up now, the council picks the president from among the ranks and I have a problem with that bc the entire forum should decide as a whole who leads the group. I think the freshmen should not be allowed to be nominated for the position bc of the consequences if they win, but other than that, i don't really see any other problems. Feedback feedback feedback. I know we are all very opinionated and this is no time to be shy. Take care all, J [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Member-at-large or President... Author: Alex B [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:03:05 06/27/01 Wed Interesting idea. I take it you are also against the electoral college system of the United States (So am I). I think there could be problems with this though. For instance, the stipulation that a freshman may not be elected might cause problems. I think they could possibly get over it though. On the other hand I think it may in fact be a good idea in some respects because then the president would have been chosen by the majority of the faculty and student body. This would be a pretty radical change for some of the longer time forum council members because it is taking away a power they have enjoyed since the beginning of the council. In essence, I am sure most forum council members feel it is wiser to have the council choose the president (because they know who will actually do work and who is not as reliable) rather than the school as a whole, in which case we may geta president by popularity alone. In truth, if your idea does come to fruition it will most likely take more than a year for them to get it inot the constitution. More input from the rest of the forum council members would be appreciated. I know the member at large is usually a highly contested office. Alex Billioux [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Member-at-large or President... Author: Val [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:14:31 06/27/01 Wed hey guys..it's Val...i notice a lot of "two cents" are being thrown so i'll jump on the bandwagon...I do like the idea of the senator at large idea (I was there for it's inception) but i do not think it realistically wise for the position be chosen from the entire forum. i agree with Alex in saying that it may turn into a popularity contest, but i also would like to believe that we scholars' are above that sort of thing...the freshman issue stems freom the fact that as hiistory proves and repeats (with the excpetion of this new, numerous class of sophomores), many of the freshman do not return therefore possibly disrupting the dynamic of the council. so I agree that freshman power be limited until proof of commitment is shown. although I realize that this is a grey area...this is just my thoughts on the issue... I'll talk to you guys later Val [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: constitutional amendment Author: scott [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:41:17 06/28/01 Thu >As a Freshman last year I kind of felt that the senator at large was my first real election I voted on. I had had some time to get to know people. I saw the people running for the position of large that were not already holding a postion as some of the most important people to the scholars' atmosphere, as I recall. I felt the election had an aura of a presidential election. Apparently this is a new position. Maybe one way to increase the role and significance of the senator at large could also be done through means of media control and political persuasion. The Council simply selects the Pres? Could someone refresh my memory. What about if the council approves candidates to be elected by Scholars'? They could produce a list. I had some problems with this in High school student council. Some may pertain to this. what I have learned through it all beginning with an objection to a clause in the constitution regulating who could becaome president. I went through a process of a written statement to actually rewriting the constitution, although it was not ratified. I learned that I called the presidential election a popularity contest when I was on the outside but after everything was said and done I realized it was a popularity contest because of what each candidate could offer, who was more attractive to everyone. Popularity and attractiveness are dangerous because of the dangerous repercussions on the democratic process but they are an inevitable aspect of it. It is amazing how some people who would always ignore politics and government rose to the occasion and listened to the speeches in high school. This is why I believe that there is still hope. I believe that these types of elections should be determined by the students yet regulated to insure that obligations are met. This is idealistic ,I also understand how keeping it inhouse is so much better, but I just wanted to say that I have some experience in this matter although it was only in high school. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: constitutional amendment Author: the one and only Jeremy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:27:29 07/01/01 Sun So I really can't believe that scott and alex actually think that popularity or attractiveness will be a factor bc for half of the college, integrity is everything and the other half uses these qualities as flaws in a person and uses them to categorize said person as superficial. I would also like to think that, in my ideal image of scholars, there would not be any of these sort of shananagans going on. Further more, I don't think that there is enough feedback so let everyone you can know about this. I feel this issue deserves further scrutiny. J [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: constitutional amendment Author: Alex B [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:14:25 07/02/01 Mon I too like to think of the Scholars' College as beig above certain things, but one must never leave a system unprotected. There is the added safeguard of the senator-at-large position being voted on by faculty as well. We would hope that they would have more forsight than perhaps the students. The problems I stil see witht eh system is that not enough people come to council meetings I understand it though, I might not go to all of them if I were not a member. But int he meetings, you see that the brunt of the work is done by the president. The president keeps everyon in check and on track. If there is a problem with the council the president almost surely is held responsible. In short, the council would not be able to take a bad choic for president in stride. An unmotivated president or one without the best interests of the school at heart could easily bring the council to a halt and greatly decrease its effectiveness. This may sound doomsday, but the point is that the council chooses those who work. I think it would be nearly impossible to become president of the council on your first time in the forum council, however, with the senator-at-large rule, a newcommer to the council could very well be int he seat. Look at our current President (Bush not Bess). He is not very good at politics and the entire country is suffering. In some ways, a washington insider would be better. The same with the council, I think the idea of the school voting ont he president formt he list of second year forum council members would be fine, but the possibility of a novice president is not healthy or productive. Tell me what you think...More from other council members too. Alex [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: constitutional amendment Author: always delightful Jeremy [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:40:53 07/02/01 Mon To condense. . .you think there should be a limitation of at least one years experience on the forum council. . .i can dig it. Very good idea, but I was thinking that if a nominee had not served on the council before, said person surely would decline the nomination. I think that may have been too ideal of me, me of all people! I won't let it happen again, and a side note, why don't we make them do a series of tests as well(eg athletic, intellect, morals) these sorts of things bc we all read THE REPUBLIC and the philosoph king should excel in all of the above. That last remark was just one of my smart assed quips that should NOT, I repeat, NOT be taken seriously. J [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Philosopher Kings Author: Alex B [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:54:50 07/03/01 Tue I don't know Jeremy. I like the idea. That way we practice what we preach :) But I am not sure how much the school would appreciate the attire that Plato recommends for such athletic workouts. Alex [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: constitutional amendment Author: Marie [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:16:18 07/09/01 Mon I think you have a good idea--I believe the president (maybe all officers) should be chosen by the entire forum and that the at-large election should be held either before or at the same time as the other elections. I also agree with you that it would not be good to allow freshmen to hold the presidential postion--they do not have enough experience with the college. The only problem with the at-large presidency, is that many underclassman may not be well known, which may prevent them, regardless of their leadship skills, from being elected. Do you think that a discussion panel (to take place before the elections) would be a good idea? Then, the general forum could question the potential candidates (regarding platform, etc.). [ Post a Reply to This Message ]