Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your
contribution is not tax-deductible.)
PayPal Acct: 
Feedback: 
Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):
| [ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4], 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ] |
| Subject: Re: See sicko, this movie is going to change many attitudes | |
|
Author: Duncan7 |
[
Next Thread |
Previous Thread |
Next Message |
Previous Message
]
Date Posted: 06:47:52 07/10/07 Tue In reply to: jw 's message, "Re: See sicko, this movie is going to change many attitudes" on 20:07:06 07/09/07 Mon Moore is an idiot and as fat as he is certainly needs health care. Maybe he'll run for office and fix all your problems. > I know people who are working very hard, usually >white collar jobs with college degrees, and have no >medical coverage, or they need to have their spouse >work at a non-profit org. for medical coverage, this >is very common, it is unheard of in europe. I know of >people who have had to fight insurance companies for >the medical coverage they were entitled to, this does >not happen in europe. These people do not waste money >on frivolous things, i am sure there are people out >there who don't have medical and waste money, but it >is not the people i know. > > Why should the corperate executives who run private >health insurance companies get paid hundreds of >millions of dollars a year to deny a third of >americans good medical coverage? Why do modern >democratic countries like france, germany, england, >japan, norway, etc. provide their citizens with >excellent universal health coverage at a much lower >cost than our private, for profit health care system >which completely denies 50 million americans coverage, >under insures another 50 million, and overpays the >business crooks who deny these people medical coverage? > > A government run medical insurance system will >attempt to provide medical coverage for all people, a >private, for profit medical insurance system will seek >to maximize profit for the executives who run the >corporation, just like any corporation. > > America is a free, democratic country, when we see >other countries doing things better than we do, we >follow their example. When the japaneese make better >cars, we either duplicate them, or we buy their cars. >Likewise, when western europe, canada and japan have >superior government run national health care systems, >we should attempt to duplicate their success! Moore >made exactly this point at the end of sicko, and i >agreed 100%. > > >>What it is is about who is paying for it. I'm >>certainly not interested in people who will buy a >>playstation while not being able to take care of >>themselves properly or go out and buy an SUV and >>foreclose on their homes 6 months later. Health care >>is not "free" anywhere in the world it's just paid for >>differently. You are just convincing yourself that >>europe is some kind of wonderland. It isn't and their >>poverty level is on par with ours if not worse. I >>don't know what state you live in but around here any >>child can be taken anywhere for emergency health care >>rather they have insurance or not so it would appear >>on the surface that this is just something else you >>really don't have any experience in but always believe >>the worst? Why is that? Is it really that much easier >>to believe there is something wrong with your country >>without really knowing what is available? >> >>> I know too many people who have not put themselves >>>in that position, i even know a few republicans who >do >>>not have health coverage and need it desperately, the >>>only thing i blame them for is voting republican. >>> >>> What is your proposal for the majority of >americans >>>who do not have health coverage, or have inadaquate >>>coverage, which is about a third of all americans? >>>What do we do about those people who work hard but do >>>not make enough money to pay for health care, do they >>>deserve to die because "the free market" deemed them >>>not worthy of having health care? >>> >>> Do you have statistics for the number of people >>>trying to immigrate to america and europe? And what >>>countries do those people come from? I know of many >>>people from central america, russia, china, india, >and >>>pakistan living in new york, i do not know that many >>>french, german, japaneese or english immigrants, is >>>there a reason why only people from dirt poor >>>countries want to come here, not people who live in >>>modern democratic countries with national health care >>>and other social benifits that we americans are >>>deprived of? when I was young we did have alot of >>>west european immigrants in new york, but now it is >>>much less common. My old neighborhood was largly >from >>>western european countries, it became korean, now it >>>is becomming chinese, at least things are still >better >>>here than in china. >>> >>> >>>>Alot of americans put themselves in that position. >>>>They buy beyond their means and blame the rest of >>>>society for it. I've been in the private and public >>>>sectors and the same holds true in both areas. It >>>>comes down to the choices you make and frankly if >you >>>>make a bad choice you pay the price. If you believe >>>>those places are so much better you owe it to >>yourself >>>>to go there. The lines are much shorter to get in >>then >>>>they are here. Wonder why that is? Maybe you just >>>>think it's better. >>>> >>>>> I know people who live in europe and canada, and >>>it >>>>>is much better over there. Unlike most americans, >>>>>europeans actually have vacations, and they >travel. >>>>>Common europeans take one month long vacations, >they >>>>>actually see the world, something that is unheard >of >>>>>for most over-worked americans. Because americans >>>are >>>>>constantly working hard so the priveleged few can >be >>>>>filthy rich, they do not get a chance to see how >>much >>>>>better people in free democratic countries live. >>>>> >>>>> It is the duty of any patriotic american to work >>>to >>>>>make america a better place for all people, and i >>>will >>>>>work to improve america by having big business and >>>the >>>>>rich pay their fair share so we all can have good >>>>>health coverage and other social benifits that free >>>>>democratic countries provide for their people. >>>>> >>>>>>"Falling behind" is a bit realativistic don't you >>>>>>think? I'm doing pretty well and so are you. To >>make >>>>a >>>>>>movie edited to meet the authors point of view >>isn't >>>>>>my idea of getting ahead and never will be. I've >>>>lived >>>>>>in europe and they don't have it any better then >we >>>>do >>>>>>they just have it differently. If that suits you >>I'm >>>>>>sure there is housing available to you. I prefer >to >>>>>>live here in america. If I had the same attitudes >>>>that >>>>>>some of you do i wouldn't live here, but that has >>>>>>always been the difference between us. If I don't >>>>like >>>>>>america I can always go somewhere else. You would >>>>>>rather take all the bad things and put a spotlight >>>on >>>>>>them as if there is no good anywhere here or in >>>>Moores >>>>>>case just lie to suit your needs. That isn't >>>reality. >>>>>>Change to suit the way you want to live, don't >>think >>>>>>your going to change things to make me live the >way >>>>>>you want me to. Especially based on edited film >>that >>>>>>says what ever they want it to. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, for too long everyone believed that line >>>>big >>>>>>>business keeps feeding us that americans have it >>>>>>>better than anyone else in the world, there are >no >>>>>>>alternatives to our capitalist system. It is >very >>>>>>>hard for many americans to accept that our >society >>>>is >>>>>>>falling far behind most democratic countries, but >>>we >>>>>>>must face reality if we are going to use our >>>freedom >>>>>>>for the better. Katrina forced many americans to >>>>>>>confront the reality of our social decline, >>"sicko" >>>>>is >>>>>>>the next logical step, but without the damage of >>>>>>>katrina. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It's amazing how you can edit to make people say >>>>>>>>whatever you want them to isn't it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The movie was both extremely sad and >>>hilarious, >>>>>>>but >>>>>>>>>it was an extremely important look at the >>>failures >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>cruelty of our for-profit health care system. >I >>>>>>>>>regret to say that from the stories of people i >>>>>know >>>>>>>>>personally, this documentary is accurate. Many >>>>>>>>>americans buy the line that we have it the >best, >>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>is the furthest from the truth, america is in >>>>>social >>>>>>>>>decline, it is time we confront this reality in >>>>>>order >>>>>>>>>to better ourselves, that is the spirit of >>>freedom >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>democracy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Micheal moore has done an awesome job in >>>making >>>>>>>his >>>>>>>>>point, it is not likely that anyone could have >>>>done >>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>better job in 2 hours, the movie is a great >>>>service >>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>our country, it is our patriotic duty to see >it, >>>>>and >>>>>>>>>do what we can to bring proper health care to >>all >>>>>>>>>americans. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |