I'm alive! I'm here! Big bad ideas! -- Season Eight Fanfic Discussion

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Date Posted: 02:45:25 09/01/03 Mon
Author: Faithsguy
Subject: I'm alive! I'm here! Big bad ideas!

Here is my big bad idea, take it or leave it...

Announcer:: You've seen Buffy defeat the master of all vampires, took on her lover, destroyed a pure demon, defeated a god, took on her best friend, took down the creator of all evil and extinguished the destroyer of time...but now what happens when Buffy's biggest ally, becomes her worst enemy?

Camera flash to dark room a voice is heard...

Voice: Its the powers, they've gone...dark...

light flash on buffy

Buffy: How did this happen? The town rebuilt...the hellmouth active?

Willow: The powers, I can feel them, they did it...

Camera flash to interior a room filled entirely with white light...

Voice: We did it, reactivated the hellmouth, the scales are unbalanced, evil is losing...we cant have that...

Heres my idea

The powers rebuilt the town without reason, basically, I"m tired and heres the point. The Powers that Be turn on the gang saying that they need to be destroyed for tipping the scales too much. I mean this could be the perfect big bad, whats bigger than Proserpexa and Glory and the First? The person who created them all!

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Replies:

[> Hmm.... -- Kashmanik, 14:26:46 09/01/03 Mon

I actually think this year we should scale *down* the Big Bad. Almost like they did in S6. Joss and Co obviously thought "How do we top a hellgod?" And the answer was, you don't. You have these three little geeks who are a minor threat, but then kick off something huge in the last few episodes.

I'd quite like a human BB this year. *Completely* human. No magic powers, or shapeshifting, or fighting skills. Just someone smart, with a plan. I'd also suggest that they appear late in the season, like Jasmine did in AtS S4. I think mini-arcs like they did (The Return of Cordy, The Beast, Angelus, Faith, and Jasmine.) would work well for storytelling, as it allows more focus on the different characters. Particularly if we had five mini-arcs for example that centred on different characters, but all had one running theme or outside character/villain leading up to the BB.

That's my vote anyway. A BB who is human, to appear later in the season.

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[> [> Big Bads -- That one Guy, 21:46:12 09/01/03 Mon

I feel a human big bad has already been done. I mean unless it is a hired hitman or something I doubt there'd be a reason to do it. I mean the whole Trioka thing and all. I think that we should consider tptb... I don't know its just seems like you can't top season 5 of buffy with season 7. So I really think we should just create a big bad that is a bad ass and run with it. Make it a vampire or something ? maybe a demon, or something

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[> [> [> I think the earlier approach -- Idea Guy, 22:03:04 09/01/03 Mon

Lots of stand alone episode that contain the personal arcs within them and introduce a potential big bad later in the season. What if it's not even a major big bad or even a single big bad?

Problems internally with the group cause them to be less able in working together, they could even decided (after lavin sunnydale) to go thier own seperate ways for an episode, then each of them feels drawn back to it because the hellmouth is rebuilding itself (the hellmouth could be destroyed but, like when you pick a flower the roots remain) and so they come together at the borders of Sunnydale as the hellmouth begins to reform and they have (8x19) different groups taking on different areas of the town, where for the first tie since Graduation Day they use regular people to aid them.

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[> [> [> [> Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 13:58:37 09/02/03 Tue

I think that idea of the group seperating was pretty much played out in Seasons 4 and 6, probably the least liked seasons of them all so I don't think it would be a good idea to try it again.

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[> Let's get un-physical -- BunnyPhobia, 16:01:15 09/06/03 Sat

Why does the big bad have to be a physical presence? What's wrong with a mental presence...that worms its way through the minds of Sunnydale's inhabitants, the scooby gang and Buffy herself.

It could start small, and the gang think it's related to a Monster of the Week - it goes away, and then, eps later, returns. Goes, returns, showing itself in different ways each time.

Ulterior motive? We could come at it from the glory angle - an 'essence' that simply desires to live...Or, it lost a home when the hellmouth was closed.

I just think that something NON Physical would be a dramatic change, and yet be more substantial (figuratively) than the 'inner demons' of season 4 and 6. You could also link it to all the mini-arcs etc, without it being apparent that its related until looking back with hindsight.

Just an idea. I do like the idea of the 'balance' being disrupted, though not too sure that the 'powers' wiping out the only thing that kept good alive is altogether logical. But the balance, tied in with the left over remnants of the joining spell has some potential for good storylines...

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[> [> love it -- Idea guy, 20:11:46 09/06/03 Sat

I think maybe have one of the characters (Giles) act REALLY out of character and everyone puts it down to his injury but it's the mind warp

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[> [> Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 22:22:12 09/07/03 Sun

Sounds too first-like to me. A disembodies essence that wants to live is pretty much exactly what the first was.

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[> [> [> Except the First was rather naff -- BunnyPhobia, 00:19:10 09/08/03 Mon

And the execution was abysmal.

did the First want to live? Is that what it was trying to do? I didn't realise that, I just thought it was all evil and stuff...shows how much season seven grabbed me, doesn't it? *veg*

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[> [> [> how about -- Idea guy, 08:18:29 09/08/03 Mon

It's getting into thier minds but it also as a physical effect (killing people whilst inside them) and thus why Dawn has to "dome" over Sunnydale to stop it getting out like a virus

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[> [> [> [> A sentinent, concious virus... -- BunnyPhobia, 21:09:34 09/08/03 Mon

Could be a big threat...a bit 'invasion of the body-snatchers' except its immerged and evolved since the closure of the hellmouth...

What I was actually thinking was the overall arc being created purely through misdirection - the audience being led to think that all MoW are completely unrelated, and it's only when something 'really bad happens' (tm) that the scoobies, and so the audience, begin to figure out all is not as it seems. That way, the mini-arcs could really be pushed to their full potential, sending the characters and relationships into whole new ballparks, using the MoW's as suitable metaphors, yet, for some of them, being controlled and related to this 'entity' or virus...

Or, we could go for a great big whopping monster...I'll write either way

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[> I say -- That one Guy, 03:15:50 09/10/03 Wed

Instead of this lets make the thing a deadly deasease that the innnitive left behind and some demon manange to get...

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[> [> Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 08:19:44 09/10/03 Wed

Couldn't think of anything worse than linking it to the Initiative, I mean not only has it been 4 years since they left, no-one liked them!

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[> [> Why don't we just have a big demonic bear with a club -- BunnyPhobia, 15:37:39 09/10/03 Wed

Least then there's comic potential....

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[> [> [> Sounds good! -- Sgt. Rock, 17:23:44 09/10/03 Wed

He could wear a tutu and be called Gerald, that's how you top the source of all evil!

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[> [> [> [> Yeah, cos then it'll prove Giles was telling the truth - -- Wyvern, 17:42:20 09/10/03 Wed

To be truly worthy, rituals have to be performed in a tutu.

Seriously, though, this Initiative idea is not one of the better ones for the reasons already given - the Initiative are history, story-wise (having been superceeded by an even more secret and dodgy international organisation by the seems of it) and The Initiative were deeply unpopular in the first place.

Though we could always use it as an excuse to bring back Stepford Sam. The Scoobies could hold a seance to call up the spirit of Warren who would admit that Sam was his first attempt at a sexbot but when she was done he just wanted to send her as far away as possible so he crated her off to the jungle where she met Riley and mistook him for another sexbot (all be it a good looking one with very nice arms). All they want to do is have little robot babies together but somehow it goes kablooie and they end up flooding the world with the next generation of evil cyber-pets...

Coming soon to a board near you: Buffy Season 9 - Tamagotchi the Next Generation...

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[> [> Hehe. You *stupid*. -- JSlayerUK, 23:31:48 09/10/03 Wed

Initiative baaaaaad.

Barrier good.

Fire pretty.

Fire angry!!

... want more beer.

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[> [> Oh -- That one Guy, 05:39:15 09/11/03 Thu

Seeing as that Innitive thing didn't work what about the doc, or the cheeseman?

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[> [> Tree bad, fire pretty... -- BunnyPhobia, 01:02:00 09/13/03 Sat

Lets have a sentinent, rampaging Fire, that sweeps through sunnydale, consuming everyone, along with some killer floods, and Gerald the Tutu Club Wielding Bear...

Who NEEDS Sam the Alcoholic Robot...Though Warren...*hmmm*

Seriously - I think we need to come up with something of our own, and stop using the shows seriously drained resources of past seasons. The past is the past, Buffy really IS damn cookie dough, and, yup, Spike always had his shirt off.

We can change all that

*cackles happily and rubs hands together*

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[> [> [> Starting with the cookie dough... -- Wyvern, 19:39:38 09/13/03 Sat

A crossover scenario...

Assume that at some point Buffy and Angel still had the "cookie dough" conversation. Now Angel's back again, helping the gang with the reconstruction following Prossieknickers and the great time squish...

Angel: So, Buffy, are your cookies done baking?
Buffy: Cookies?
Angel: Don't you remember? The whole wanting someone someday to be able to enjoy delicious cookie Buffy? I was wondering if...
Buffy: Oh... OH! Cookie dough? (Backpedals) Right... I meant "ice cream"... yeah, ice cream, that's right. Chubby Hubby.
Angel: Eh?
Buffy: That's right, some day I'm gonna be a chubby hubby - I'm having a sex change and leaving Sunnydale. With Andrew. We're going to Mehico never to return! Arriba!

But seriously for a moment, I'm wondering whether, after the mega-arc of seasons 6 and 7 and then the huge arc we executed for s8, whether we should consider taking our lead from the writers on AtS and rather than going with a huge, all-consuming arc this season we might not be better off with more MotW type episodes, stuff with flashbacks, backstory development and a loose series of threads holding the whole thing together and only really coming together in a mini-arc over the last few episodes. Of course, there would be occasional arc stories before that, but I don't see the need to make the arc as dominant this season. We've lost a number of writers and it might make it more enjoyable for those of us remaining if we weren't forever waiting on what was happening in the episode before and trying to set up the episodes that follow. In theory it should also cut down on delays between episodes if we aren't trying so hard to make a watertight arc (or as close as we can, considering we are fanfic writers who all have lives outside of this project and not people who can spend all their time doing this kind of thing unfortunately).

So my suggestion is that we spend less time concentrating on the Big Bad and its attendant story arc and more time concentrating on the characters. We've already discussed the need to slim down the cast, so it seems to me to make sense to spend quality time on the characters we choose to retain. And I reiterate, I am absolutely opposed to sending characters away on the grounds of pregnancy... especially if the baby's father stays behind...

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[> [> [> [> Why don't we not have a big bad yet? -- Idea guy, 20:54:08 09/13/03 Sat

Angelus and Faith didn't became "bad" until episode 14 of each season and Willow didn't erupt until episode 20. Why not start off with the standalones and character arcs and see what big bad comes from that?

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[> [> [> [> [> especially if it's such a big threat -- Idea guy, 20:55:25 09/13/03 Sat

I never got why the big threats took longer to kill. If it's that big a threat it'd be able to kill them quickly, so there'd be a sense of urgency.

The First spanned across thirteen episodes and lost any of the threat it showed in CwDP.

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[> [> [> [> I'm with Wyvy -- BunnyPhobia, 21:04:03 09/13/03 Sat

Also, that way, the mini-arcs can concentrate of character development, rather than apocalypses, which tends to prevent the former, rather than assist it.

Plus, like Idea Guy says, long big bads? Lose all threat after a few weeks. HOWEVER Angel season 4 which, imo, is a good representation of perfect serial TV, had an overhanging arc, but THREE big bads (beast, cordy, Jasmine) all with different tactics, different goals and methods, that prevented stagnation. Then, on top of that, you had the inter-group dynamics (connor, fred/gunn, fred/wes, angel/angelus etc etc) that pushed the pace and upped the episode content by a whole ton.

I'm not saying we go for something that compacts, but mini arcs, culminating in a BIG mini-arc would definately work. (Though I would LOVE to have aspects of the rest of the season's mini-arcs foreshadow and hint at whats to come..something to get the audience, in retrospect, to go 'bloody hell, how did I miss that'... But I think thats just the speculater in me : )

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[> Hmm... -- That one Guy, 01:59:06 09/14/03 Sun

Idea have willow raise tara after she break up with kennedy and have tara be cursed or something that brings out the worst in people and have the final be Buffy trying to kill Tara with Willow trying to save her

I know you don't like it cause you don't like tara being evil but come on it would let alot of mini arcs work

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