I’m gonna have to disagree, this is surely recency bias. Palhina scored goals, covered ground enabling us to play more attacking players, won the ball back more than anyone in Europe. Berge is a class footballer, but from the outside is mentally the same as palhina. We are better team as we have better players elsewhere and silva is a brilliant coach, but I can’t agree as an individual Berge is better than palhina. -- SW6.doc

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Date Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 05:33:08pm
Author: Henry1879
Author Host/IP: croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net / 82.38.22.76
Subject: I’m gonna have to disagree, this is surely recency bias. Palhina scored goals, covered ground enabling us to play more attacking players, won the ball back more than anyone in Europe. Berge is a class footballer, but from the outside is mentally the same as palhina. We are better team as we have better players elsewhere and silva is a brilliant coach, but I can’t agree as an individual Berge is better than palhina.
In reply to: Spencer 's message, "Going to stick my neck on the block here and say Berge is better than Palhinha. Or at the very least, as good as. Palhinha was a beast, don’t get me wrong, but Berge has much more to his all round game. An exceptional piece of business to bring him in." on Tuesday, March 04, 04:49:50pm

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Replies:

Palhina what a wasted talent. Top 4 prem player. He found his mojo with us and this division. But sadly like so many has almost disappeared. Cash/allure more appealing than self-satisfaction with so many. How happy is he? We could do well financially out of Berge sadly. Berge does his job well but nat a Palhina yet? (NT) -- CB, Tuesday, March 04, 06:59:14pm (213-18-174-131.customer.gigaclear.net/213.18.174.131)

Disagree. Different player. Passing range & ability to carry & operate in tight spaces are miles ahead. But he's nowhere near the defensive destroyer. To me that makes Berge a superior player today & and worth what we sold Pal for. If he added goals he'd be worth even more. I don't think he will though. I think his future is us putting more of the ball through him but continuing to restrain him in the final 1/3. I like the Matic comparison. (NT) -- eganonoa, Tuesday, March 04, 07:25:10pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)

Pal tried more things, scored goals, long range, headers, all sorts. Had a win at all costs, sheer will &desire others fed off, covered ground far better than Berge. Whoscord has berge our 9th best player this season, 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 MOM. Matic was a fine player, but now he’s an immobile DM in the French league. Berge is quality, but same way Muniz wasn’t ever League1 as some claimed, Berge hasn’t approached what pal did for us. (NT) -- Henry1879, Tuesday, March 04, 08:17:42pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
- You could argue that the way we play football now, more possession and control and playing on the front foot, there'd be less to do for someone like palhinha. In the same way he doesn't have much to do for Portugal or bayern as they don't need a cleaner upper. On that basis, berge suits our current style more. I prefer berge with the ball, I preferred palhinha as a scoring threat. (NT) -- Jim © (The Devon IP), Tuesday, March 04, 09:15:51pm (host86-171-24-234.range86-171.btcentralplus.com/86.171.24.234)
  - Not sure I agree, feel we are at our best now when we let teams have the ball, we struggle when teams sit deep and we play with more possession, we put in more crosses and lots of long balls and thrive with chaos and end to end, like CFC away. Berge is a v.good prem DM, pal was above that, pal nailed on in our best prem XI, surely people don’t put berge in that yet. (NT) -- Henry1879, Tuesday, March 04, 09:26:28pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
  - Completely agree. It's stark if you compare Berge this year vs Pal last. Berge is progressing the ball 195 yards per 90 to Pal's 178, with a league-leading 89% long-ball completion rate (Pal 62%), O.92 key passes/90 to Pal's 0.43, 4.85 passes into the final 1/3rd vs 3.20. He's carrying the ball 67.5 yards/90 vs 35, miscontrolling 0.18 vs 0.97, and winning 67% of aerials vs 56%. Pal leads in volume of tackles (3.43 per 90 at 68% success vs 1.17 at 70%) & shots (1.5 per 90 to 0.12) (NT) -- eganonoa, Tuesday, March 04, 10:08:16pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
    - All of this is consistent with their career numbers, except shots (where Berge's been better overall) and carries (where Berge's been even better). Pal's destroyer capabilities cannot be denied. But we're clearly better without him than with him, including defensively. Last season we conceded 1.61 goals per game; this it's 1.33, and that's with a drop-off from Leno (Andersen replacing Tosin's been a bit of a wash). We're doing better with more control of the ball and Berge's a big part of that. (NT) -- eganonoa, Tuesday, March 04, 10:13:49pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
      - You have to take formation into it though. We didn’t need to play with two dms when palhinha played, and we never played with two dms and 5 at the back when he was with us either. (NT) -- Hg, Tuesday, March 04, 10:42:03pm (cpc141402-brnt4-2-0-cust971.4-2.cable.virginm.net/86.9.199.204)
        I think, beyond the occasional five at the back, the system that we've played this year have been very similar to last. For about 50% of last year we played with two inside forwards (Cairney and Andreas) and this year we've done the same (ESR and Andreas). Then we played the more traditional 4231 with Lukic/Reed pairing Pal, just like we do now with Berge and Lukic. (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, March 05, 12:17:34am (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
        I think goals scored are on a par and I think goals conceded are less this season, so the 'two DMs' isn't really having a negative effect. (NT) -- Jim© The Devon IP, Wednesday, March 05, 01:51:28pm (62-64-192-58.virtual1.co.uk/62.64.192.58)
        That's correct. We're scoring at a slightly better rate than last year. But defensively we've been seriously improved in fact and "expectation" (i.e. but for under-performance by Leno, we'd have an even better defensive record). But the "two DMs" is a misnomer. We've played with a sole DM quite a bit, whenever only one of Berge/Lukic has played, but when they've played together, Lukic has performed the same role he did with Pal last season, and Reed did the season prior (i.e. more box-to-box). (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, March 05, 02:55:01pm (pool-108-18-149-21.washdc.fios.verizon.net/108.18.149.21)
    - Wow very interesting. (NT) -- HemelRog, Wednesday, March 05, 08:03:42am (5ec0f8a7.skybroadband.com/94.192.248.167)

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