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Subject: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Washington Lion (Ready for more) [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 11:49:09 11/25/24 Mon The Empire State Bowl has quickly become a highlight of fall: A season-ending rivalry game, a rivalry that makes sense, between two often evenly matched teams. The Lions’ victory last year spared them a winless season; this year’s won them a share of the championship. But even when there’s less at stake, it’s a lovely valedictory, a meaningful final game for the seniors, a day to connect with football friends one last time before winter. And typically a competitive contest: before Columbia’s current four-game streak, the teams split the previous 28 games 14-14; More than half of those games were decided by a single score. The Lou Little Trophy with Georgetown also has appeal. There’s far less history between the schools, but it’s New York-Washington. D.C. is full of alums, many tend to show up for what’s usually a pleasant late summer day, and this one appreciates there being at least one game every other year that doesn’t involve an hours-long drive. And, I imagine, vice versa. It makes me miss the Liberty Cup. Also a trophy game, dedicated to the at least 82 Columbia and Fordham alumni, including two Rams players, lost on 9/11. There’s not a great deal of series history, but it’s the out-of-conference rivalry that makes the most sense, with the greatest potential for growth – and the greatest possibly of drawing fans who aren’t affiliated with either school: Who Owns New York? Not least, it’s likely better for the student-athletes of both schools to have at least one local road game every other year. When consultant Rick Taylor recommended Columbia suspend the Fordham series after 2015, he wasn’t suggesting it be permanent. The Lions had just completed a second winless season, were on a 21-game losing streak and had lost six straight to the Rams. “Columbia can play Fordham,” he said. “I’m not ducking Fordham. But they should not play Fordham when Fordham has three games and scholarships under their belt. ... I’d take Fordham on anytime in the middle of the season when I got games under my belt. “I would hope that sometime in the next decade, Fordham comes back on the schedule. Because that will prove that we were alright, and Columbia has succeeded.” The 2015 meeting, Coach Bagnoli’s first game with the Lions, was Columbia’s best attended of the year. Since then, Columbia HAS succeeded: Five winning seasons in the last seven; a 40-30 record including 6-3 against the Patriot League. Fordham in that period is 33-38 including 0-3 against the Ivy League. This series would have been competitive from 2017 forward. The point isn’t that Columbia should put Fordham back on the schedule now that the Lions appear to have regained the upper hand. Both programs have had and will have ups and downs. When the Rams were beating the Lions regularly, most everyone else was, too. Perhaps they should never have taken them off. Fbschedules.com lists games with Lafayette and Lehigh next year. If Columbia continues to schedule Georgetown, the first open date will be 2026. The Liberty Cup game would look good in that spot. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Lion Rooter [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:04:40 11/25/24 Mon I could swear i heard "Far Above Cayuga's Waters" while I read this post - absolutely true - it was a great day for Columbia and heightened by this rivalry. There really was a big visitor contingent at the game and I have to begrudginly admit the Big Red band is super - great sound and traditional look ! IN fact I am a tad confused - the Empire state bowl is glass - and the Ivy title bowl is silver ? I think i saw both in post game photos. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Beating Fordham is easy Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:16:07 11/25/24 Mon https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401654470/fordham-dartmouth See? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Beating Fordham is easy Author: Lion Rooter [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:52:33 11/25/24 Mon I follow the Fordham teams - this year everyone beats them - they have two wins - but not too long ago they were a very good program - they were in the championship game not too long ago. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Old Lion (bad blood) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:50:39 11/25/24 Mon The Fordham series ended with some very bad blood, including headhunting suspicions targeting Columbia transfer QB Nottingham, who took some very bad late hits. I also have a bad memory that Sean Brackett was never the same after a hard hit that he took against Fordham in his first game of his junior year. At the time Fordham’s President wanted to go all in as a scholarship program. And I never liked the fan experience with no visiting stands. So I would prefer that the series continue as a vestige of the past. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Washington Lion (Bygones) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:19:08 11/25/24 Mon That was one president, a few coaches and many teams ago. There's still only the one grandstand, though. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Dr. V [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:02:10 11/25/24 Mon Back to the Empire Bowl, this Columbia fan wants to thank the Big Red for bringing their marching band to NY. I come from Big Ten country. Marching bands add pageantry and exemplify some of the characteristics of the game of football in that a presentation by a marching band involves teamwork, coordination, precision, skill, practice and some dedication. I wish we had one. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: RedWin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:49:47 11/26/24 Tue I think the Empire Bowl game should be moved to NYC every year because Cornell actually draws better in the City in late November than we would in Ithaca. Secondly Cornell has two campuses in NYC with Cornell Tech Park and the Medical School. In reality the money to support Cornell athletics is in NYC and not Ithaca especially in late November. Finally this coming weekend is the Big Apple Classic hockey game at MSG, so playing both games within a week's time in NYC just makes sense. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Old Lion (NYC) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:45:16 11/26/24 Tue Cornell brings out a nice crowd to Baker Field. I would be surprised if Cornell ever agrees to it, but it would make a lot of sense. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: RedWin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:38:42 11/27/24 Wed A bunch of alums were also attending the hockey game at MSG this coming Saturday. It's a waste to play the game in Ithaca in late November, which is the best time of year to visit New York City. This could also be a recruiting event for Cornell seniors to travel to the City for job interviews prior to the game and then stay for the weekend. Most of our students blow off classes during Thanksgiving week anyways. If properly promoted I think we could easily draw 10k plus to NYC for this game. We would raise more money and it would be great recruiting for both Cornell and Columbia. Go Big Red! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:26:31 11/28/24 Thu I have Fordham ties. The shame was how the ridiculous CU band crossed a line with some of their comments about Fordham and Catholicism. The idiot band leader went from the band's typical (and often funny) irreverence to insult. He thought he was being funny. He was just being an arse. FU v. CU should be a great rivalry. But my Lions band ruined it. Seems a lot of stuff gets ruined on Morningside Heights. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: If we are thinking about the same thing Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:00:58 11/28/24 Thu The underlying subject matter was 1,000 times more outrageous than the joke. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If we are thinking about the same thing Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:51:42 11/29/24 Fri Except I don't know anyone who was there who thought the joke was funny. BTW, what happened to our band? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If we are thinking about the same thing Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:37:39 11/29/24 Fri Saying that the joke wasn't funny is one thing. Saying that it was offensive to Catholics is quite another. The joke was no more "Anti-Catholic" than the movie "Spotlight." [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If we are thinking about the same thing Author: Washington Lion (Sounds right) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:19:00 11/29/24 Fri In fairness, I don't remember any of the jokes being funny. There was a modest band at the two home games I attended this year. Perhaps a work in progress. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Playing at a venue that would get the biggest draw... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:23:17 12/01/24 Sun .... was pretty much the way the league operated for most of its history. Eventually, the "visitors" got sick of being a traveling show and demanded home-and-homes. Sure, playing in NYC might bring some short-term benefits. But it would only be a matter of time before Cornell sees the unfairness of playing Columbia on the road every year. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Playing at a venue that would get the biggest draw... I Hope They're Grateful Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:39:39 12/03/24 Tue Clearly, having Dartmouth play at Yale Bowl and Palmer Stadium every single season, year in and year out, is unfair from a competitiveness standpoint. But the athletic directors at Dartmouth, Yale and Princeton are all consenting adults. What they choose to do in the privacy of their bedrooms -- I mean, boardrooms -- is their business. The operative word here is "business." Dartmouth, I presume, concluded that traveling to New Haven and Central New Jersey every single season, while a negative from the standpoint of winning football games, was an attractive business proposition. Like a lanky cornerback facing Derrick Henry running at him full speed, sometimes a sound business decision can be made quickly, even if it does not appear so to the uninitiated. I would hazard a guess that the policy was reversed not when a Dartmouth AD suddenly realized, "Hey, this is unfair!" but rather when the crowds and the gate at the Bowl and Palmer had shrunk to the point where the pie was too small to tolerate the potential negative impact on the W-L record. Nobody changed their mind because of fairness, equity or doing the right thing. They changed their mind when the dollars dried up. As in so many elements of college football, the Ivies pioneered what eventually spread nationwide to the Alabama's and Texas' of the landscape. Then, having spread our seed, we withdrew to comfortable chairs in our secret societies and eating clubs to watch the mighty Crimson Tide host Mercer University. I hope that all those pretty blonde coeds and their drunk tie-wearing dates at Bryant-Denny or Darrell K. Royal are mindful that their beloved autumn ritual was created entirely by the people they now disdain: those detested ivory tower Ivy Leaguers at Yale and Princeton. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Washington Lion [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:44:32 11/28/24 Thu This lifelong Catholic agrees with Go Green. The joke, written by a sophomore, was sophomoric. In my genuinely humble opinion, those who choose to get worked up about the jokes, and not the horror that inspires them, are making themselves part of the problem. Also, it was during the inaugural Liberty Cup game. They met 13 more times before Columbia begged off. It didn't ruin the rivalry. I don't counsel it, but it's the kind of thing that, in fact, tends to fuel rivalries. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Old Lion (band) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:00:43 11/29/24 Fri the band had become an embarrassment—not funny and harmful to morale of the team. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:46:48 11/29/24 Fri Remember "Lose, Lions lose?" [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: RedWin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:49:06 12/03/24 Tue The biggest draw is hosting the game in NYC every year. Half the students are gone for Thanksgiving break and who wants to play the game in Ithaca in late November? There has been nearly zero promotion for the Empire Cup game and Cornell still had a nice turn-out. If our joint athletic departments got off their A and promoted the game it could be a nice fund raiser for both programs. The money to support Big Red athletics is in the NYC metro area and not Ithaca. Both teams could do something fun like agree to have their kick-off teams comprised of all seniors, who are not starters, etc. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Alternating schedule idea Author: voy vey [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:28:08 12/04/24 Wed In the 70's, the Princeton/Dartmouth game was the finale when at Palmer, and the season opener when in Hanover -- presumably for weather reasons. If "no one wants to travel to Ithaca in November" for the Empire Cup, what about a similar scenario? In even years, the first Ivy games for each school are: Columbia @ Dartmouth Brown @ Cornell The season finales are: Dartmouth @ Brown Cornell @ Columbia In odd years, the Ivy openers are: Brown @ Dartmouth Columbia @ Cornell Finales would be: Dartmouth @ Columbia Cornell @ Brown The "snowy" schools get a home game every year in September, and travel to (relatively) warmer climes every November. The Empire Cup gets a NYC send-off every other year (as it does now); in the alternate years, Cornell still hosts, but on a late September Saturday. (Brown/Dartmouth is hardly a "rivalry," so disrupting that finale hardly seems like a drawback to this idea.) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: That arrangement ended because... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:05:56 12/04/24 Wed Someone (presumably Princeton) complained that Dartmouth got too much of an advantage by opening at home every season. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: That arrangement ended because... Not So Fast, My Friend Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:30:31 12/04/24 Wed Your supposition doesn't make sense, GG. It's more of an advantage to finish at home. It's like choosing to start on offense or defense in football. For generations, head coaches chose to start on offense, to hopefully seize the momentum early. Now almost all head coaches choose to start on defense, because they'd rather have the advantage of receiving a kickoff later in the game. Coaches finally realized that advantages compound later in the game when there is more information available. That offsets giving your opponent the chance to strike first. It's like a home team in baseball always choosing to bat second even though they are entitled to choose to bat first. It's why, in college football overtime, the team which wins the coin toss always defers starting on offense in favor of playing defense first. There's more information available when you have the ball second. The same phenomenon is true over the course of a season. You want to stockpile your advantages late in the season, when you have more information about what you need to accomplish to achieve your goal, which presumably is the season-long conference championship. Think about your favorite example of all time, 1995. With seconds left in the game against Dartmouth, Princeton coach Steve Tosches made the correct and unassailable decision to kick a field goal for the tie, instead of going for a touchdown and the win. As a result, Princeton was the outright Ivy League champion for 1995. That's the advantage of more information. There's more information available later in a game and later in a season. Go Green, you were very quick to point the finger of blame at Surace when Princeton seemed to switch season finale opponents from Dartmouth to Penn several years ago. You whined and complained that Surace didn't want to face Dartmouth at the end of the season with a championship on the line. It turned out of course that, not only were you wrong, you were completely wrong. When Princeton, Penn, Dartmouth, Brown, Columbia and Cornell all shuffled their season finale opponents, the initiative came from *YOUR OWN* alma mater. It was Dartmouth that requested the change, inconveniencing five other schools. (That Dartmouth would prefer to end every campaign against Brown instead of Princeton boggles my mind. Forget what the football coach wanted; I'm surprised that the admissions department didn't resist the optics being changed. If I'm running the admissions department in Hanover, the one institution in America that I most want to be associated with is Princeton University. Who doesn't want to finish the season against the #1 university in the country which kind of looks like Dartmouth in terms of undergraduate focus? What an epic mistake.) I suspect the same is here. I'll bet your boys bitched about always finishing the season on the road. That explanation makes much more sense than an opponent complaining about you starting the season at home. Logic, my boy, logic. Try to use more of it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: That arrangement ended because... Not So Fast, My Friend Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:04:03 12/04/24 Wed "Someone (presumably Princeton) complained that Dartmouth got too much of an advantage by opening at home every season." You will notice he's big on "presumptions" and "guesses". Perhaps Tony Reno is distressed to find out he wasn't recently actually finalizing the details of his contract with Rice. Here are some additional facts taken from the Dartmouth athletics website: https://dartmouthsports.com/sports/football/opponent-history/princeton-university/76 The teams switched from always playing in NJ starting with the 1964 season. From 1964 through 1976, games between the two schools played in Hanover were in October in what was typically not only the third game of the season for Dartmouth, but also typically not its home opener. During that period the cumulative results were 3-3 for games played in Hanover. Beginning in 1977 through 1988, the teams opened their seasons in September at Dartmouth. During this period, the cumulative results were 3-4 (i.e., Dartmouth under .500). Beginning in 1990, the teams played their games at the end of the season regardless of location. So, Princeton won more games than Dartmouth when opening the season at Hanover. While I don't have copies of correspondence or telephone transcripts from this era, this information does not exactly compel the conclusion (presumptive or otherwise) that PU might have complained about an unfair advantage for Dartmouth. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: (Corrected) Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:08:55 12/04/24 Wed "Someone (presumably Princeton) complained that Dartmouth got too much of an advantage by opening at home every season." You will notice he's big on "presumptions" and "guesses". Perhaps Tony Reno is distressed to find out he wasn't recently actually finalizing the details of his contract with Rice. Here are some additional facts taken from the Dartmouth athletics website: https://dartmouthsports.com/sports/football/opponent-history/princeton-university/76 The teams switched from always playing in NJ starting with the 1964 season. From 1964 through 1976, games between the two schools played in Hanover were in October in what was typically not only the third game of the season for Dartmouth, but also typically not its home opener. During that period the cumulative results were 3-3 for games played in Hanover. Beginning in 1977 through 1988, the teams played in September at Dartmouth. During this period, the cumulative results were 3-4 (i.e., Dartmouth under .500) for games in Hanover. Beginning in 1990, the teams played their games at the end of the season regardless of location. So, Princeton won more games than Dartmouth when played early in the season at Hanover. While I don't have copies of correspondence or telephone transcripts from this era, this information does not exactly compel the conclusion (presumptive or otherwise) that PU might have complained about an unfair advantage for Dartmouth. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: (Corrected) Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:41:44 12/04/24 Wed In a world which seems to have lost its moorings with regard to facts, it's good to see that, somewhere, someone still responds to suppositions with facts. sparman, you are a candle of light in a world increasingly dark. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Just going by a contemporaneous SI article Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:29:58 12/04/24 Wed Entitled "A Late Season Homecoming" that covered the 1991 Dartmouth-Princeton finale (which was for all the marbles). They said a "malcontent" (that's a direct quote) complained about Dartmouth's (supposed) advantage of opening at home every year--even though the evidence didn't back that up. (Of course, we were generally lousy in the 1980s whereas Penn and Princeton were strong). Can't find the article on the internet anymore, but if anyone wants to go hunting for it... I surmised that it was Princeton because the league stuck us with them as the finale. "You guys don't want Dartmouth to open at home every year? Fine--you guys go to Hanover for the finale every other year." Again, if anyone else wants to guess who the complainant was, I'm happy to entertain theories! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Just going by a contemporaneous SI article Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:52:49 12/05/24 Thu GG, I'll give you two responses: (1) We live in an era in which public leaders routinely say, "I've heard. . ." or "People say. . ." and then go off in a direction which cannot substantiated in any other way other than that initial "People say" preface. Don't do that. Every time that you make a supposition you present as reasoned which has no foundation in fact, you diminish the conversation and you diminish yourself. You're better than that. I've searched for your purported Sports Illustrated article and I can't find it despite having its verbatim title and details of its contents. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but your referring to a specific article which can't be found easily on the internet raises the usual questions. Would love a link. (2) Nobody here really needs to read that SI article to know that, from any incomplete set of facts, your knee jerk reaction is to blame somebody at Princeton. I personally don't have any problem with that whatsoever. As I said in the thread about Michigan-Ohio State, rivalries are the cherries on top of the sundae of the regular season. We love them. Sometimes we define ourselves by whom we choose to hate. So all that's cool. But you, personally, are in a unique position. You have an impressive encyclopedic memories for all things Dartmouth, most things Princeton and many things Ivy League. That gives you a credibility which many of us do not have. That you marry an unsurpassed knowledge of facts with a knee jerk, fantasy-based, reality-unhinged suspicion of Princeton as some kind of all-knowing, all-powerful behind the scenes manipulator of the Ivy League diminishes your otherwise credible knowledge. I'll grant you that, collectively, HYP carry much much much more weight than the other five members of our conference. But the fact that the League office issued its infamous press release after the 2021 Harvard-Princeton game suggests that Princeton is not at the top of the power structure. It's probably H-P in that order. I'll give you that. I actually find your Princeton diatribes very entertaining, but at a time in this country's history when the line between facts and fantasy has become increasingly blurred, those who know facts have an obligation to present them accurately when possible. Aim higher. You don't owe it to us as much as you owe it to yourself. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I have an idea! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:32:12 12/05/24 Thu Bear with me--I may have a way to prove the article exists! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Many thanks to BGA! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:32:07 12/06/24 Fri BGA posted the SI article in today's entry. I kept a scrapbook of my football days. That SI article--and other noteworthy articles of big Dartmouth wins are fading, but still there. I sent a picture of it to BGA. But the mystery remains as to who the "malcontent" was. I say Princeton and gave my reasons. Anyone else want to take a stab at it? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: As for Princeton... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:41:16 12/05/24 Thu If you (or anyone) have theories as to who complained about Dartmouth having an unfair advantage of opening up at home every year, I'd love to hear them. I think we can safely cross off Brown and Columbia from the list. They had better things to worry about in the early 1990s. Would anyone have cared what Cornell thought? Probably not--even though they were competitive in those days. That leaves HYPP. Princeton got stuck with having to go up to Hanover every other year in mid-November. So.... perhaps they were the ones who complained? If anyone has anything better, I'm listening! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: As for Princeton... Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:11:52 12/05/24 Thu And some people continue to think the moon landing was faked or that weather is controlled by the CIA. Conspiracists gonna conspire. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Here you go Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:22:43 12/05/24 Thu Although I don't know why we would take an unattributed comment (which I did not see) as fact, if you promise not to spend time looking for a certain annual article: https://vault.si.com/vault/archives/1990s/1991 [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I assure you the article exists Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:46:21 12/05/24 Thu Feel free to ask anyone about Berube's niece's stats from this week's game if you doubt my word. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I assure you the article exists Author: SpuytenDuyvil76 (verily) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:32:49 12/06/24 Fri Sumbody touchy 'bout Princeton...whole lotta agida right there [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I assure you the article exists Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:57:05 12/06/24 Fri The "unattributed" comment was regarding how this claim by "some malcontent" was stated in SI back in 1991 without attribution. That could have been anything, including a writer repeating a rumor or campus myth (such as Princeton demanding a switch in season finale opponents from Dartmouth to Penn, hmmm). I would love to see you argue to a judge that such an article statement is even admissible into evidence as to the truth of the assertion, much less credible. If there was a complanaint as SI reports, it could have been anybody. You are demanding someone disprove your claim. Given your comically unshakable predilections, that would be a fool's errand. Meanwhile, we can wonder who the "loyal BGA reader" was. This is my last word on the topic. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Then what do you think happened? Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:59:15 12/07/24 Sat If you don’t agree with my reasoning, what’s your theory as to why the schedule got changed in the early 1990s? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: That arrangement ended because... Author: Ivy Patriot [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:34:35 12/04/24 Wed No one at Dartmouth wanted to end with Brown. The schedule was changed because the Dartmouth academic schedule changed and exam week conflicted with the end of the season. The idea was a quick trip to Brown every other year was less of a grind than traveling to New Jersey. If they could get a do-over the vote to finish with Princeton would be unanimous. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I hate to admit it, but... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:33:31 12/04/24 Wed I'm actually warming up to closing with Brown. While I loved closing with Princeton, there *is* something to be said for letting the seniors end their careers with a win, and the underclassmen starting the offseason on a high note. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I hate to admit it, but... Author: Lurker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:54:32 12/04/24 Wed Beware football karma GG [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: If you throw out... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:53:18 12/06/24 Fri ...the lost years of 1998-2009 (when Dartmouth was lucky to beat anyone), I'd guess that Dartmouth's winning percentage against Brown is around .900. Could Brown turn it around? Sure. But it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If you throw out... Author: Brook [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:13:08 12/06/24 Fri If you throw out the losses, Princeton has a 1.000 winning percentage over Dartmouth. Your illogical way of thinking and arguing confounds everyone on this board. I’m surprised you’re employed. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hope you’re not a Fourth Circuit judge Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:51:44 12/07/24 Sat I’m going to Richmond to argue next week. :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Hope you’re not a Fourth Circuit judge Author: Brook [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:58:23 12/07/24 Sat To argue a case or is he an Ivy sports fan? If the former, I congratulate you for keeping a job. I just don’t see it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: A case Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:19:35 12/07/24 Sat Although once Richmond formally joins the PL and starts regularly playing Ivy teams, I’m sure my office will send me down to Richmond if the judges want to talk about Ivy football. :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: FU Alum [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:25:07 12/09/24 Mon I’d love to see Columbia and Fordham renew the series. At least at FU, enthusiasm for the series was pretty high. A true city game, with teams 7 miles apart. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Washington Lion [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:12:00 12/10/24 Tue And putting it back on the schedule as an annual fixture would give the enthusiasm a chance to grow. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Empire Cup, Lou Little Trophy, Liberty Cup … Author: Uptown [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:18:38 12/11/24 Wed And sans the ludicrous CUMB it could be fun. But getting the kids out of the encampments will be tough. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]