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Subject: Re: Princeton? What The Hell Is Going On? Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:03:57 11/07/25 Fri In reply to: Recent Blue 's message, "Princeton?" on 15:22:20 11/07/25 Fri I find this of great interest as well. What, if anything, creates structural or long-term advantage in this conference? How can any institution be optimized for success, given its financial and other constraints (in this case, academic limitations)? I have posted on this board for decades that I would like to see HYP not dominate competition on the athletic field. I accept that their advantage in terms of academic brand names is not easily diluted. They were at the top of the food chain in 1825 and still are, two centuries later. (I guess Harvard and Yale were at the top of the food chain as early as 1725.) The only thing that's changed is Stanford is now considered a peer and, in my eyes, arguably has pulled ahead as a university (as opposed to an undergraduate college). So I would like to see BCCDP compete and do well. I think that's good for the conference. But here's something that should give all of us pause as we think about the structural advantages enjoyed and exploited by HYP: Academic Year 2024-25 Ivy League Championships Yale. . . . . . . . 2 Harvard . . . . 5 Princeton . . 17 It's staggering. I can't explain it. Like gravity and 68-yard field goals, I wish I could understand how it happens. What the hell is going on? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> Subject: Re: Princeton? What The Hell Is Going On Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:02:08 11/07/25 Fri Let me try the short version first; probably kinder than going sport by sport etc. Princeton athletics are where they are because the trustees, faculty, admissions, and administration are all agreed on how to run them. There are active faculty reps for every team. Every AD in the history of the school has been an alumnus. They try to hire excellent coaches without exception, and support them. The AD is expected to hire good people, or explain why not, to the trustees. The facilities are excellent and well-tended, but not really showy. The unspoken expectation is that, if they are going to field a team, it will be competitive in its league, i.e. certainly top half, over the long haul. This requires good recruiting as well as coaching, and they pay for it. This is for all squads, all the time. They really try to treat women equally with men, and so their women's teams tend to be somewhat more successful than the men's, facing schools who don't. They want to be Division I so that any athlete in ANY varsity sport has an opportunity to compete on a national level if sufficiently talented. Recruits are aware. Alums tend to be proud of this, and support it around the world. They NEVER get conflicting stories from the school regarding the value or seriousness of athletics. This has been the approach since the terribly managed dumping of wrestling in the late '80s, with no serious exception since Gary Walters took over in '94. It doesn't always work seamlessly, but spread over 38 sports it gives them a shot at a number of championships each year. The 17 is an aberration, with a number of things breaking right; there have been years with 5 or 6 titles, the norm has become 10 or 11. But you'll also notice there are always a number of squads around 2nd or 3rd place, and so sometimes it will be more. They may never hit 17 again, but that's not really the point. Being competitive and proud of your team and your own role is. You can come up with rogue data points that conflict with this, but surprisingly few. Not sure how satisfying that is, but it's a start. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Princeton? What The Hell Is Going On Author: Tiger81 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:49:15 11/07/25 Fri Great analysis, I agree that the close and decades-old alignment across its key institutional constituencies laid the foundation for the sustained success of Princeton’s athletic programs. I have always been impressed by the number of outstanding coaches who have been selected by, attracted to, and retained at Princeton. Many are alums but not all, and there have been several (Samara, Banghart, Sailor) from rival Ivies who have built Tiger dynasties. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]