Followup -- ExUBF's Parlor_Free wheel as far as u can from UBF

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Date Posted: 01:20:32 03/01/05 Tue
Author: Mike K.
Subject: Followup
In reply to: Chris 's message, "Re: Gender roles and the Bible" on 15:05:57 02/28/05 Mon

Often the Bible speaks about PRINCIPLES, not about certain regulatory statutes which may vary over time. For instance, Heb 9:22 "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" is the principle. The offerings of animals in the OT were one application, Jesus' death on the cross in the NT the other application. In both cases, the principle was valid.

I think that HEADSHIP is such a PRINCIPLE. However, the question is how it is applied. Surely not in the way that the man becomes a tyrant in his house and his wife needs to obey everything he says. It doesn't mean that he is better or more valuable than his wife. Nor does it mean that a man is head over other women, only over his own wife. I think the main point about headship is accountability and responsibility.

This, I would agree with.
I also wrote initially that submission is a biblical pattern. NOT an absolute!
It touches hand in hand with our debate on Romans 13 - if anon had read my postings there, they would have realized that the word "submission" is not an easy, casual read-over.
And likewise, that there are inclusions to that word and limitations as well.

The Bible doesn't have only one verse on the gender role.
Ephesians likens the relationship inside a family to that of Christ and the Church.
There are quite good messages out there on the subject, I would encourage everyone who stumbles over Colossians to use these verses.

Much damage has been wrought by demanding blind obedience and 100% submission towards ANY form of husband using this exact verse in Colossians "wives, be subject..."
First off, Chris very well added that the subsequent verse mut be added to the equation "husbands, love your wives".
But mostly, there is a limit to the subjection "as is fitting in the Lord", and this clearly tells us that 100% is no question. What, however, is "fitting in the Lord"? This is subject to interpretation, and obviously different in each case.

Aside from that, now I want to sum up a few of the essentials that I like to share with the young people when the situation arises:

In a biblical family, the pattern is Christ and the Church. It's not that Christ orients Himself on the husband, but that the husband must look towards Christ in his actions.
Likewise, it's not that the Church should behave like a wife, but that the wife should consider her role before her husband as the Church before Christ.
The Church has a great deal of freedom, even to do things against the Lord's will, yet she must realize two things:
for one, Christ IS the head of the Church.
for another, Christ isn't happy when she deliberately violates His will.

As the "head", Christ is also the "cover" of the Church, what the Church does in the name of Christ, this is coming back to the Lord. The Lord has to take the blame, and the Lord has to rectify the situation. But as long as the Church is in submission, the Lord will gladly do this. However, when the Church leaves God, the Church will also have to take the blame, because she is no longer acting in the name of the Lord but on her own.

Likewise, in the family: the husband being the head of the wife means that the wive's actions reflect the husband, and that when the wife gets into trouble, it's the husband's job to get her out.
The husband should be gladly willing to even lay down his life to preserve his wife, just as Christ died for the Church.
If the husband is showing such a sacrificial disposition, labouring to feed the family, planning to provide for the future, caring emotionally, physically and spiritually for his wife, it is only fitting that when he make a decision, the wife accept this decision and live with it.
Her submission is a token that she accept his love and care.

This is the sound, normal situation.

All kinds of abnormality can creep in, the most common one being that the couple loses sight of Christ and the Church (shifting the family center from God to something else).
Also, the husband changes from a determined lover to a dominant ruler. This is also abnormal.

But it's also abnormal IF the husband is in proper disposition by caring, providing, nourishing and cherishing, spiritually, emotionally and physically, when the wife sets herself above her husband or refuses to accept his decisions. In this, she is violating the biblical principle of wively submission.

Now, Anon, do you realize the big "if" that is in the last statement?
The problem is that in UBF, this big "IF" often applies. A very gentle husband falls into submission to his wife because of his duties, she becomes the head over the family, perverting the biblical principles.
In THIS case, I'd clearly admonish the couple in regards to said verse in Colossians.

In Christ,
Mike K.

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Replies:

Some thoughts -- Anonymous, 15:15:30 03/04/05 Fri
- Re: Some thoughts -- Mike K., 00:31:32 03/05/05 Sat
  - More thoughts -- Anonymous, 06:50:19 03/07/05 Mon
    - On the Lord -- Mike K., 03:54:05 03/08/05 Tue
      - Side joke -- Mike K., 03:56:14 03/08/05 Tue
      - On the Lord - another try -- Anonymous, 17:38:03 03/08/05 Tue
        Re: On the Lord - another try -- Mike K., 23:14:05 03/08/05 Tue
        Re: On the Lord - another try -- Anonymous, 17:02:15 03/11/05 Fri
        Word games -- Mike K., 23:26:31 03/11/05 Fri
        Satisfied with your response -- Anonymous, 09:36:13 03/12/05 Sat