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Date Posted: 09:02:18 09/09/22 Fri
Author: Garr Wy
Subject: Re: Another illustrative report
In reply to: 's message, "Re: Another illustrative report" on 05:20:08 09/09/22 Fri

First I want to be clear that I do not disagree with you in your broad assertions, that is it quite possible that something is going on. However from my own direct experience as a having a relative who had an extensive stay in a teaching hospital (virtually all hospitals in the US are teaching hospitals), you don't have to secretly find a way to train medical personnel by letting the practice on patients. It's done all the time openly in teaching hospitals. Residents, or doctors in training who have graduated from their academic studies, often do much of the work under the supervision of a senior resident or an attending physician. The attending physician reviews the residents work and signs off on it, therefore approving it. Sometimes late at night senior residents are the only doctors available. If you stay in a teaching hospital, you will often if not usually find yourself dealing with residents. On rounds in the morning the attending physician will come in and check you accompanied by a flock of resident doctors. I could be misreading what you said, your contention that the situations are contrived to allow medical personnel to practice on real patients is unnecessary; it's done openly. Most people don't fully realize this but only with minimal research and even asking questions of hospital personnel, which they will usually answer honestly, you can find it out. Now all that said, often residents do procedures that the patient assumes are being done by the attending physician, and are not told, but this is no great secret.

As for the boy's tonsillectomy, if the parents had health insurance, which they may not have had, then it would make sense that they would look for ways to have his tonsillectomy performed free. However the kid does not mention that he was advised by his doctor to have his tonsils out, which if taken literally would mean his parents decided, although on reconsideration, this could be and probably is an omission on his part.

I agree with what you said about catheterization. I could just be a matter of expediency, to get his bladder empty and move him out. As far as training, medical personnel could get enough of that in a teaching hospital.

I think the most relevant point in the boy's story is that he himself seemed to suspect that something else might have been done. If this is true, this would provide a better rationale for the vans, or mobile surgeries like this. It would be away from the ordinary environment where these kinds of things are performed, and consequently doctors not connected with whatever organization was responsible, and who could object on the grounds that it was unnecessary, or something else was not according to protocol. As to what might have been done, I don't know.

Below this thread I posted an old story about the CIA's secret study on circumcision. This is documented to be true. My understanding is that the CIA paid parents of low income families whose sons were not circumcised, to have the boys circumcised at a certain age so they, the CIA could study the psychological effects. So "dark" procedures do happen. It's a documented fact that there have been projects like this, and if the apparently no one wants to talk about them. My best guess is that they happen in unusual settings to avoid scrutiny or exposure and the programs can better be kept secret.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable. I think you have a point. However, if I'm reading some of your conclusions correctly, I think a few of them might miss the mark a little.

Thanks

GW



>My impression is that there is a growing tendency to
>control every body function during procedures in kids.
>Even though a kid could pee on the table, it is an
>equal possibility that urine can fill the bladder
>without coming out, but could come out without control
>after the procedure, or be blocked for several hours
>after the procedure, due to the anesthesia. The
>catheter can hinder such complications. Since this
>procedure happened in a van with narrow timeframes,
>there would be little time to resolve these type of
>problems, so the catheter use looks logical.
>
>But I think there is more to this history that that is
>told and what I commented on in the first place.
>
>First of all, I think the kid already had been to a
>doctor that had made a request for tonsillectomy, and
>that the same is true for the other kids.
>
>But the parents had the choice of having it done in a
>surgical van without having to pay anything.
>
>I know that these pediatric vans have grown to huge
>enterprise and the organization operating the vans
>offer their service as a charity and they cooperate
>with local hospitals.
>
>But those financing these charity enterprises will of
>course have some compensation for their offer. I
>therefore think that the kids possibly were used as
>object in some research project or as training object
>for medical personal.
>
>It is highly possible they underwent an endoscopic
>procedure in their urinary system for these purposes.
>Even if the only thing that happened with their pelvic
>parts was the catheter insertion, this could also be
>for training of nurses.
>
>The wording used by the boy in a report suggest that
>he himself thought something more had been done. ("At
>least that is what their said")
>
>That these other things done during tonsillectomy are
>directed at the pelvic organs, is because these body
>parts are free to access during tonsillectomies.
>
>Even though I did not write it, the boy possibly got a
>suppository for pain management and relaxation in
>their anus before being wake. This is actually
>something used.

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