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Date Posted: 10:42:55 04/13/05 Wed
Author: Joe
Subject: Re: What would you consider "manipulation"?
In reply to: elia 's message, "Re: hum... i don't understand the point here" on 09:38:00 04/13/05 Wed

>1. concerning the "many problems". cologne has many
>intern problems, not just now, there have been for a
>long time now... but most of them are not of my
>business, so...

It's nice to be able to dismiss problems as "internal" and "not my business." Unfortunately, the many problems probably affect members and recruits negatively and indicate the systematic problems of UBF that people have pointed out for years. Not to excuse your former chapter director's behavior in regard to his marriage, but he was forcibly married (manipulated) in the UBF way. Of course, that was not the only negative attribute he acquired through years of UBF "training" (manipulation)...

>concerning the "manipulation" you wrote about:
>IMO there are several ways to estimate certain things.
>i wouldn't implicitly say that ALL people in ubf want
>to manipulate the "sheeps".

"Wanting to manipulate" and "unconsciously manipulating with good intentions" are two different things.

>like i said i cannot
>comment on other chapters. but here nobody is forced
>to do things he doesn't want to. of course, there are
>situations where the bible teachers want to help the
>sheeps. but that has not to be manipulation. i see it
>the positive way: there can be things or problems with
>you you're not even realizing, but other people do. so
>they talk to you about it and try to help you. that's
>not all bad i think. sure, there easily can be ways to
>handle things wrong but it isn't necessarily that way.

What would you consider manipulation, then?

From the Bonn Chronology at ubf-info.de:

8/13/2004: According to another insider’s information there had been a conflict between Abraham Lee, the local leader in Cologne, and Markus Keum, the “second man” in that chapter. Apparently Abraham Lee had resented him for taking over the role of the Cologne director for some months, while he himself received “training” in Chicago from Samuel Lee, and the conflict was increased when Abraham Lee interfered in the typical UBF way with the marriage of Markus Keum’s daughter.

I understand that there was some forcing in Abe Lee's interfering in the mentioned marriage. Or should we see that in "the positive way?"

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