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Date Posted: 08:43:11 10/10/04 Sun
Author: Chris
Subject: Obedience
In reply to: Brian Karcher 's message, "Re: Another question for Brian" on 01:26:52 10/10/04 Sun

This wording is not found in the Bible. The closest would be Hebrews 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." (NIV)

You somewhat evaded the question. The question was whether it is biblical when a leader demands "obey me like you obey God." You could have simply answered with yes or no.

I think Heb 13:17 is not even close to such demands. Please note the phrase "as men who must give an account" which is one of the problems with UBF leaders, who act as men (or women) who must not give an account. And please take the time to read some exectical studies on Heb 13:17, one of the favorite verses of UBF and other authoritarian Bible groups. I will show you that it means something completely different than UBF teaches.

In case you've not seen my website recently, I had taken the JC content down.

Good to hear. No, I didn't have a look on your website recently, because I lost any interest when I noticed you hosted JC30's content. I had hoped you were much different from JC, and was badly disappointed to see you being in cahoots with him. Maybe you recognized that JC's content did more harm to UBF than any good?

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Replies:

Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 09:00:29 10/10/04 Sun
- Re: Obedience -- Chris, 10:26:26 10/10/04 Sun
  - Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 08:36:53 10/11/04 Mon
    - Re: Obedience -- Chris, 10:08:29 10/11/04 Mon
      - Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 10:14:26 10/11/04 Mon
        Acts 5:29 -- Bob, 21:57:20 10/12/04 Tue
        Re: Acts 5:29? -- Brian Karcher, 08:15:32 10/19/04 Tue
        Re: Acts 5:29? -- Chris, 17:01:02 10/19/04 Tue
        Re: Acts 5:29? -- PECAS, 17:28:37 10/19/04 Tue
        Let's speak about the practical life... -- Not Brian, 04:46:08 10/20/04 Wed
        Switching the Topic Again -- former, 07:07:57 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Switching the Topic Again -- Not Brian, 09:29:29 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Switching the Topic Again -- former, 09:59:49 10/20/04 Wed
        R2 Brian -- not me, 10:04:57 10/20/04 Wed
        ... Fellow Christian is back? -- Chris, 10:24:18 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Let's speak about the practical life... -- amy, 12:09:54 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Acts 5:29? -- Bob, 13:47:53 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Acts 5:29? -- Brian Karcher, 14:29:18 10/20/04 Wed
        Romans 13 -- Brian Karcher, 14:38:37 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Know any good studies of Romans 13? -- Joe, 15:11:28 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Know any good studies of Romans 13? -- Brian Karcher, 15:36:01 10/20/04 Wed
        Obeying your Shepherd like God -- Supercut, 15:58:38 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Obeying your Shepherd like God -- Brian Karcher, 16:13:10 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Obeying your Shepherd like God -- Tony B., 19:38:10 10/22/04 Fri
        Re: Know any good studies of Romans 13? -- ChicagoXile, 17:12:54 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Know any good studies of Romans 13? -- ChicagoXile, 17:21:03 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Know any good studies of Romans 13? -- ChicagoXile, 17:36:31 10/20/04 Wed
        Romans 13? Ain't that just a bit hypocritical? -- Joe, 15:43:42 10/22/04 Fri
        Re: Romans 13 about spiritual leaders?? -- Chris, 04:18:34 10/21/04 Thu
        Re: Acts 5:29? -- Bob, 19:20:52 10/21/04 Thu
      - Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 10:21:34 10/11/04 Mon
      - Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 10:37:20 10/11/04 Mon
        Re: Obedience -- Chris, 06:09:10 10/12/04 Tue
        Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 14:49:20 10/20/04 Wed
        Re: Obedience -- Chris, 04:30:01 10/21/04 Thu
        Re: Obedience -- Bob, 18:30:47 10/21/04 Thu
      - Re: Obedience -- Brian Karcher, 10:49:17 10/11/04 Mon
        Take it a step further -- Joe, 10:58:21 10/11/04 Mon
        Re: Take it a step further -- Joe, 11:06:10 10/11/04 Mon
        Re: Obedience -- Chris, 11:53:35 10/11/04 Mon
        Already answered -- Brian Karcher, 13:33:31 10/11/04 Mon
        Answered, but what are the ramifications? -- UBFree/Shane Cain, 15:13:05 10/11/04 Mon
        Re: Answered, but what are the ramifications? -- former, 15:16:51 10/11/04 Mon
        Re: finally answered -- Joe, 16:55:51 10/11/04 Mon
        Re: finally answered -- Joe, 17:12:22 10/11/04 Mon
        Skewed view -- Mike K., 07:19:56 10/12/04 Tue
        Re: Answered, but what are the ramifications? -- Chris, 01:29:10 10/12/04 Tue
        Obeying People Like God? Not Unbliblical? -- former, 07:53:38 10/12/04 Tue
        Re: Already answered -- Brother in Christ, 09:57:30 10/12/04 Tue
        Re: Already answered -- Brian Karcher, 15:03:29 10/20/04 Wed
        No admission -- Mike K., 07:20:48 10/22/04 Fri
        Re: No admission -- Shane, 18:12:35 10/22/04 Fri
    - Only in preaching? -- Mike K., 11:07:53 10/11/04 Mon
      - Re: Not only in preaching? -- Brian Karcher, 11:13:27 10/11/04 Mon
        Thanks for the answer -- Mike K., 11:21:24 10/11/04 Mon
        See What I mean? -- former, 12:48:44 10/11/04 Mon
    - Re: Obedience -- Joe, 07:17:42 10/12/04 Tue