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Date Posted: 23:57:13 04/05/02 Fri
Author: Richard
Subject: Re: Baptism
In reply to: Rick 's message, "Baptism" on 17:25:13 03/05/02 Tue

Greetings in Christ from sunny Texas,

Let's take a look at Acts ten using the texts and let's see what is present.
[1] Acts 10:6 (KJS) He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

Hmm--I note that we can agree that Cornelius received the supernatural spiritual gift of speaking in foreign languages..but it could not and did not save him--this verse tells us that Peter--Peter who was present in Acts 2--is going to tell them what they need to do..

[2] Acts 10:22 (KJS) And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Again--what do we see the text saying--that Cornelius had sent these men by God to have Peter preach to them.

[3] Acts 10:32 (KJS) Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of [one] Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

Again--Peter is going to speak to these folks--who are the enemies of the Jews[verse28]about what they need to do in order to be saved..

[4] verse44 please note that Peter had been preaching to them the things of Jesus--In each of the texts cited in this passage--that was the purpose and intent of God--Now verse 44

Acts 10:44 (KJS) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Next verse tells us what that enables--
Acts 10:45 (NKJV) And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

NOTE-- What was the result of Cornelius receiving the holy Spirit? They, the Jews heard the gentiles speak in foreign languages preaching and praising God..Which is the purpose of the gift.
IT DID NOT save them--It showed the Jews though that God wanted the Gentiles added to the body of Christ.

Now--note Peter's reaction--Acts 10:47 (KJS) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

CATCH THIS..If Cornelius is already saved...Why does Peter go ahead and state..Can any man fobid them water.. Not baptism of the Holy Spirit but BAPTISM OF WATER..

Remember--Ephe 4:4 (KJS) [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

There is "one calling" one baptism and that baptism is of water...
Now, let's do the rest of the story--

Read Acts 11 the Jewish brethren are going to put Peter on the carpet--why did you do that sort of thing for our enemies?

Here then is a part of Peter's defense to the Jewish brethren--Acts 11:13 (NKJV) "And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, `Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 `who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.'

This is Peter and he makes it clear what is going to happen when the two meet.

Acts 11:15 (NKJV) "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 "Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, `John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 "If therefore God gave them the same gift as [He] [gave] us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Now--Acts 10:45-46 explains the the Holy Spirit is the supernatural spiritual gift of speaking in foreign languages.--

Note verse 17 and turn back to the first occurance of salvation--
Acts 2:38 (NKJV) Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Here, the gift of the Holy Spirit is not the Holy Spirit itself but rather something from the Holy Spirit of God. That gift is identified in verse 39--"THAT PROMISE"

Acts 13:26 (NKJV) "Men [and] brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent.

Acts 2:26 (NKJV) Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
Acts 13:26 (NKJV) "Men [and] brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent..... 32 "And we declare to you glad tidings--that promise which was made to the fathers.

Now you had stated---
Take a look at Acts 10. Notice how Cornelius received the Holy Spirit BEFORE he was baptized. Having the Holy Spirit makes you a child of God, and they became a child of God BEFORE they were baptized.

My response--Yes, I took a very careful look at Atcts 10 and you need to rethink what you are saying and believe the texts here--These Gentiles did not receive salvation prior to water immersion in order to have their sins forgiven..

you said

I have yet to hear any of you people in the Church of Christ denomination answer that satisfactorily. The simply fact of the matter is that he was saved BEFORE his baptism. Yet you teach that baptism is what saves a person. That was not the case with Cornelius. The Church of Christ creed is not water tight. I am seeing some leaks appear

My response--YOU JUST HAVE... The simple matter of fact is that He was not saved prior to being immersed in water in order to have their sins forgiven--This was indeed the case with Cornelius--

And, this creed of water baptism as I have just demostrated is not church of Christ stuff at all--It is the Bible--the Word of God that you are accusing of leaking.

Richard

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