| Subject: Speaking out of turn - Part 1 |
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Cassie/Kyla
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Date Posted: 02:59:10 07/08/01 Sun
Over the past few days I have been having an e-mail conversation with Kyla on this subject of speaking about others. It all started when she asked me to delete something she had posted that she was having second thoughts about. It's quite long so I've broken it up into two parts and numbered it so you can remember where you're at. (Cassie)
(Kyla) This conversation started when I posted a midnight message to the forum, while in the beginning stages of a shakedown passage. Even as I was posting it, I panicked! I was not at all sure some of what I was saying should really be public! Because I was including references to another person and this might be wrong! All I knew at that moment was that my spontaneous speaking had suddenly become very treacherous feeling...and I was not saying anything negative, just maybe speaking out of turn, and I didn't know! And I felt I had no way, in that moment, to know. So I tried to clear the message, but unlike other times, the message was posted quickly and appeared on the message board! So I emailed Cassie and asked her to please delete it. In the message I was speaking of having discovered that I had spoken out of turn in another situation, and that it came from a place of deep insecurity that I was just discovering. I was raw! Cassie invited me to continue the dialog with her on email, which we did. But after we did this exploration together, we both felt we wanted to post the whole thing to the forum because it was so catalytic for us. We want to share the juice! So here it is, and blessings all around:
1. KYLA: This is definitely Shakedown stuff for me and boy do I feel unsure of my footing! My anxiety about exposing this is not because of the rawness of this place for me, but because another piece that is up for me is, what is it okay to say about someone else? I always thought I was very clean there but recently have discovered, to my chagrin, that I am not and now I am in a place where I experience major confusion and "fuzz-out" around that issue. It is so volatile and can reverberate to negative effect on so many people, and right now I feel I ought to just tape my mouth shut until I get some clarity here!
2. CASSIE: Well I know EXACTLY what you are talking about here. I did the same thing yesterday on my hike. I repeated something that someone else had said to me in a way that made them look bad, and me look good. I didn't even realize it until reading your email now. How's THAT for unconscious. I've done this before too. And the "fuzz-out" or mind fog thing happens around this for me too. Because I have no intention, in fact I've said this before, "I HAVE to stop talking about people behind their backs.." And then I notice myself having done it again. This behavior is occurring just like an addiction. Well, interesting investigation! Let's start NOTICING this, whether sooner or later. I notice that the more I notice something AND speak it to another person as we are doing here, the more conscious it becomes until FINALLY one day I notice it AS I'm doing it...and then...BEFORE I do it. We can do this. Can we keep talking about it, maybe here by email so as to be discreet? I would like to be able to use you for my mother confessor here if that's OK with you. And you can do likewise with me if you like. What do you think?
3. KYLA: Bless you Cassie, yes, I would love a partner in this investigation. And delighted to be invited to share these things with you. All I know about this one right now is that right under the static screen of mind fog is, you guessed it, terror! I am holding the question, "what am I afraid of here that I am protecting with this unclarity about when it is or is not okay to speak about other people?" Even my question is unclear. What I propose to do is really make an all out effort for a while to notice before I speak whether another person comes in to what I am about to say, and then see what happens if I delete that reference and just talk about me. Not under any circumstances for a while to give myself permission to speak about another. I probably won't be able to actually do this completely, but it is the only way I can think of to activate a greater degree of noticing WHAT IS GOING ON HERE FOR ME! This promises to make my communication awkward for a while, but so be it. So, I am giving myself permission to talk about you only if I am talking to you. Remains to be seen how well I live up to this. Comments? I really look forward to more conversation with you.
4. CASSIE: Oh boy! Thanks! I want to do this too. I don't get what you mean when you say: "whether another person comes in to what I am about to say". Could you explain it, I'm a little slow. I don't think I am into making all out efforts to stop this, although this may fruitful for you. The principle of "that which you resist, persists" tends to take over and I end up doing it even more unconsciously. My angle of approach to this is to just notice whether I continue to do this or not. After talking about it with you in these emails, it may have become more conscious already. I may notice it before I do it already. Hoping so. It is possible, however, that for me this would be such an unconscious thing that if I don't notice it at the time, then I will just start noticing it afterward and telling you about it.
I like your investigation so far regarding the terror. Wow. Are you feeling into this and getting any clues as to what it is about? I love that you are holding this question about your unclarity especially in the light of our recent postings about falling into the question. I'll be interested to hear more about where this goes for you.
5. KYLA: Okay. What I am trying to say is I want to think before I speak, and if I am about to speak about someone else, I want to stop myself and either recast my speaking in terms that are only about me, or if I can't do that, say nothing. Meanwhile noticing where the pressure is to speak about someone else, what does it consist of, why does it seem necessary, etc. I don't know if I can really do this, but at least the attempt should yield some good info. I agree that this is an artificial approach, and I don't like "all out efforts" either. As far as the "what you resist persists" idea, well, maybe. In this case, for me, I don't think the speaking about others is all that unconscious...just heretofor unexamined. I'm sort of trying to trick myself into noticing something more about it by trying to catch myself in the act. I don't actually believe that all speaking about others is to be avoided.....but I'm yrying to set up conditions so I can learn to discern a whole lot more about the for now unconscious pressures that lead me to speak. Does that make sense? It may indeed be totally wrong-headed and in fact (horrors) hypermasculine. But at the moment I don't think so. I think it is just experimental. And I'm quite capable of changing course in midstream with new evidence, or newly arisen unconscious pressures! I do, for the record, feel an inner inspiration and pressure to try this approach, not as an answer..which I think would indeed yield the "what I resist persists" kind of result. This is not a solution, but a method of inquiry. I think that is an important distinction. And I wanted to ask you, do you really want a "mother confessor" who can't keep her mouth shut? And by the way, I would bet that for both of us this has "become more conscious already!" Thank you for playing in this field with me!
As for the terror, all I know so far is it has to do with a basic feeling that I am ultimately unacceptable and have to defend myself from that being seen! My mind knows this is true bullshit, but my inner survivor keeps shouting it at me and making all sorts of things come out sideways. The "I am unacceptable" belief comes from my parents emotional rejection of me at an early point when my mother became jealous of my father's love for me...so they both withdrew, and I felt their hurt, anger and confusion and knew it was somehow my fault. This set the basic tone of my whole childhood. It's not that unusual, but it sure does mess a person up! And they had no clue how to handle any of this but to supress, supress, and supress some more! I am Being this place now, and I feel I am just at the surface of it still. I am scared of where this process is about to take me! But I also really have no other viable choice. So, here goes...............
6. CASSIE: Oh Kyla I am so falling in love with you here. I am so interested in how this experiment works for you. I just had a long conversation with Holly about all this (AND by the way without mentioning ANYone else by name) and it was so exciting! She is reading a book called "Power vs Force: The Hidden Determinates of Human Behavior" by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. This led to talking about attractor fields and how we get pulled into them. And how they seem to exude a mind fog that makes us unconscious AS we are drawn in. And how Recognition Yoga enables us to see this happening more and more as our awareness of it grows. And how as we become more and more aware here, we can stop going there so unconsciously and investigate what lies beneath. And how eventually OTHER attractor fields begin to draw us toward them. Such as connecting in this exciting way with you and with Holly and even my new dog. THIS is what attracts me now rather than my addicitons. I am on fire with new ideas such as this. I am excited about beginning to notice what lies behind and beneath my interactions with others where I do speak untruthfully or in a self-serving way. SO interesting! Thank you, thank you for being you, for bringing all this into my room.
And I've already noticed something. Right after I got through emailing you awhile ago, I called up a friend and after I hung up I went, "Oh no" I didn't exactly say something bad about someone else but I didn't speak the truth. It was a sort of white lie to protect myself and the person I was talking to so she wouldn't think I was thoughtless of her feelings. Very self-serving. I guess I am on the way to Recognition with a capital R. Wow. Exciting!
7. KYLA: Okay. More about attractor fields, please. I am feeling pretty yucky right now, this plunge I'm riding is taking me into some pretty uncomfortable places. I feel even poetry is too dishonest to bear! (In spite of all those theories about truth and beauty....) And guess what...I felt disappointed that you didn't mention me to Holly! That's so yucky it may even make me regain my sense of humor! This is already getting hard and I ain't even practiced it yet! I did post a msg to the forum about this too. But I feel so disoriented. Thanks for being there.
8. CASSIE: Oh my god. I DID mention you to Holly. Eating my words. And here is exactly what I said. I asked her if she knew you and she said she didn't. Then I told her that I felt an incredible connection with you and that I thought it was very ironic because I think you may be the exact sort of person that if I knew you in person I would be intimidated by because you are assertive and have a natural sense of entitlement. Holly said yes she had heard you on a tape and that was her impresion also and that this quality was rare in a woman. We were talking about the wonderfulness of heart connections at the time. I can't believe I didn't remember this when I told you I didn't mention anyone by name. What I was thinking was that I didn't say anything bad about anyone. This didn't count because it was all good. I hope you aren't offended or upset by this. Feedback! Feedback!
AND this just goes to show how unconscious I am in this area. I'm much more so than you. Much much.
9. KYLA: Let's not get into comparisons of who is more unconscious than whom. I do the same thing all the time. That is why this is so interesting to me! I am seeing so much! And no, I am not at all offended or upset..and you know this is illuminating another area for me. I remember being very confused the first time I discovered that I was intimidating to other women. Because inside here I am always afraid! "How could I possibly intimidate anyone?" I thought. I have received this reflection many times over the years so I came to believe it, but only now do I begin to understand it. This is part of my screen! Somehow I learned to come across as strong to protect that very hurt place inside. So I can have some hope now that this too will begin to soften and come clean. I am so glad that I first met you in this protected form, so we could get quickly past that screen and come to know each other! And I am even more inspired to continue this experiment in investigation. All the places where I unconsciously and automatically speak about other people are invited to come into clarity! What else will we discover?!
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