After a false start they've really proven themselves to be amazing owners. Secured our future at the cottage with the redevelopment. Invested absurd amounts. Have us as one of the least indebted teams. And now great football, with a great manager who is being properly backed. -- SW6.doc

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Date Posted: Tuesday, November 19, 01:22:14am
Author: eganonoa
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 172.58.139.240
Subject: After a false start they've really proven themselves to be amazing owners. Secured our future at the cottage with the redevelopment. Invested absurd amounts. Have us as one of the least indebted teams. And now great football, with a great manager who is being properly backed.
In reply to: ASPT 's message, "There is a piece in the Athletic today ….." on Monday, November 18, 07:17:32pm

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Yes, Khan has invested that amount, but if you can point relegation primarily at the door of those running the club, that, alone has cost us an approximate £700m in revenue just from not being in the top division. Another £150m was the purchase, and then another £100m for the stand build - effectively adding value to the asset he owns. So yes, we can be thankful for the benevolence, but the majority of it is his cost for allowing his son to use us as a plaything. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, November 19, 02:16:38pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)

How have you reached the 700m figure for not being in the top division during their tenure? (NT) -- Henry1879, Tuesday, November 19, 02:27:30pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)

Comparing the revenue we got in the respective years vs revenue premier league club generated, both from a commercial (sponsorship etc) and broadcast point of view. You could argue as low as £500m, but thats not my point - our problem is we dropped to a third of our revenue in those times, but didn't drop our costs anywhere near the same proportion. Its an oversimplified view, of course, with much more nuance than this forum allows, but the fundamental point remains the same. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, November 19, 03:36:56pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
Further 'actuals' inside - in reality probably somewhere between £500m and £600m -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, November 19, 04:18:09pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
- This is recommendable as worth clicking on. It differs from the musings of the shape-shifter addressing you above in aiming to deal in objective data rather than fancies. That's so at least until your final forecast, made in shared ignorance of how long it will be before they sell up. That said, you're likely right and certainly are earlier in this thread on the theme of flats-on-CC. (NT) -- b+w g., Tuesday, November 19, 05:49:31pm (host109-154-238-80.range109-154.btcentralplus.com/109.154.238.80)
  - (Correction: the shape-shifter in the thread a little above) (NT) -- b+w g., Tuesday, November 19, 05:51:30pm (host109-154-238-80.range109-154.btcentralplus.com/109.154.238.80)
    - A thread that, two (NT) -- hours later, seems to have gone, Tuesday, November 19, 07:52:41pm (host109-154-238-80.range109-154.btcentralplus.com/109.154.238.80)
      - Re: A thread that, two.. nothing there wasn't true. Just tiff can't handle the truth. (NT) -- South park 🏞️, Tuesday, November 19, 07:56:41pm (NoHost/195.162.117.107)

Isn't your timing is off on the "plaything" jibe? My memory isn't your level, but was TK heavily involved in the club in those early years? Hasn't our uptick coincided with his appointment as Vice-Chair and DFO in 2017? Also, isn't the jibe beside the point? Yes, whoever was in charge in those early years made terrible decisions that are in-part behind the increased owner spend. But the ability to make mistakes, learn and not run away from them is impressive, no? I see no negatives here. (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, November 20, 01:07:33am (fpa05631cf.szoh002.ap.nuro.jp/160.86.49.207)

I see negatives, in that there was a waste which set us back a few years, but ultimately agree, wasteful and naive yeh, but I’m not even sure what play thing means? How did the decision making occur which concludes FFC was a play thing? Does said individual have more or less say in transfers than before? I honestly have no idea. To make mistakes, learn then improve, should be applauded, not jabbed at with slightly snide remarks (NT) -- Henry1879, Wednesday, November 20, 08:42:59am (82-132-237-169.dab.02.net/82.132.237.169)
- I think, indeed, we are a rich man's plaything. But it was ever thus for football clubs, no? We're not all St. Pauli, and virtually none are exactly cash-making machines. So most clubs are hoping for a benevolent monarch, so to speak. Either that or enjoy being used to whitewash human rights violations or corruption, or being asset stripped. Our guys appear to be as good as they come. (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, November 20, 09:55:19am (p1357079-ipxg00a01sizuokaden.shizuoka.ocn.ne.jp/153.215.225.79)
  - I disagree, in that I think most American owners see the vast money made on US sports teams and think similar can be done with prem teams. Why would Kahns with no history of liking football buy a football team as a play thing, they’ve made huge money on Jags and AEW is also seen as a big financial success (worth $2bn), they have a portfolio of sports teams which have made them huge money, not purchased as vanity projects. They’re not abramovich with history of being football lovers. (NT) -- Henry1879, Wednesday, November 20, 10:53:09am (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
    - There's definitely an aspect of a somewhat "safe" investment in the sense of rising asset values (both of owning such a great bit of land in London and rising values of Premier League clubs generally). But sports isn't exactly a guaranteed winner in comparison to returns from other investments someone of SK's wealth could make. Think of it like his yacht, but with the added bonus of him using his money to build his son's career as a sports owner. Constructive fun (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, November 20, 11:17:16am (NoHost/172.58.30.179)
      - I err on the 'plaything' side – I am no property developer but with the sums invested, not sure I see a property development return to the Khans that would get close to recouping their investment. Profits/recovery may be possible on an exit if EPL clubs seize control of TV rights - which is why the US PE houses have been interested – but that is by no means a given. Owning an EPL club is great for profile and other soft benefits – and maybe that is enough for the time being (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, November 20, 12:05:26pm (host86-134-9-66.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.9.66)
      - Nothing is guaranteed, AEW is worth $2bn (Forbes), huge financial success, Jags purchased for 700m, worth $4bn, the khans have done outstandingly out of their sports investments, I reckon FFC just hasn’t worked out just yet in pure money, but getting in to UK market and spreading the jags internationally is a huge benefit. Hugely wealthy don’t just fritter money away on things, it’s not like they’re life long FFC fans with a huge passion for football like Roman. (NT) -- Henry1879, Wednesday, November 20, 02:20:43pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
        But maybe they have learnt to love it in the way eg the Wrexham guys have learnt to love it - TK does come across as genuine in terms of the excitement he gets from his involvement - the ownership has also increased the Khan profile globally and that may well have a positive impact on their other business interests. As said above – it may be that they realise a profit on their exit but I suspect only if the TV distribution model is changed drastically. Until then – a bit of fun (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, November 20, 03:12:46pm (host86-134-9-66.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.9.66)
- I'm not jabbing with snide remarks, i've said theyve absolutely improved. But my comment is very much accurate for the very worst example of everything i'd criticised early on - namely 18/19. Tens, and tens of millions wasted, TK firmly front and centre of all of that, and due to amortisation, that season alone cost us for years. This forums short answer format doesn't allow for tonnes of context and explanation, so please bear that in mind if an answer i give seems snippy. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Wednesday, November 20, 02:47:56pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
  - Use of language, let his son use us as a play thing, curious why frame it like that, rather than, naive & made mistakes. TK front & centre of that waste, is he now front & centre of our success? Maybe being a glass full type, I’ve enjoyed the rollercoaster, the promotions up with seasons I’ve most enjoyed, entertainment has been amazing. Let’s say it had gone smoothly from day 1, not sure we’d be in a stronger position than we are now anyway as due FFP we aren’t far off our ceiling. (NT) -- Henry1879, Wednesday, November 20, 03:18:15pm (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
    - I thought i'd explained that so as to make it not curious. I typed out a sentence which essentially said that we had (for several years) effectively spent loads of money paying for TK's learning curve. And ran out of spaces, so had to cut down words, hence substituting that big long sentence with the word plaything. Nothing more nefarious than that. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Wednesday, November 20, 03:24:58pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
I think what is clear is that they bought into an industry they didn’t understand and the early yrs [mis]management was pretty woeful both in terms of bad spend and managerial decisions. The spend has been costly for them and for the club in terms of FFP – that is all history now so long as the cost of those mistakes are not passed onto the fans.. Lessons have been learnt - and in the last 4/5 seasons our transfer dealings have been extraordinarily good. (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, November 20, 10:47:52am (host86-134-9-66.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.9.66)
- So on the pitch we are operating at a level comparable with the best in our history. Which is obviously great – not sure where TK sits in terms of responsibility for transfer dealings but the upward curve pre-dates Marco. So no current issue with TK as DOF or the way the football side is being run – my big beef is the deliberate attempt by club owners/managers to change the demographic of the fan base.- (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, November 20, 10:52:34am (host86-134-9-66.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.9.66)
  - I agree with most your points, but not sure owners are trying to change demographics, it’s just a financial thing. There’s an article today about FFC, the money being charged is to recoup money, they don’t care what the demographic is, they just care about people buying the tickets for the prices they want. Until the market has a correction and 80% of revenue isn’t going into players pockets then only way to compete is to keep trying to build revenue. (NT) -- Henry1879, Wednesday, November 20, 11:00:43am (croy-26-b2-v4wan-167127-cust1611.vm24.cable.virginm.net/82.38.22.76)
    - I was sitting in The Dun Cow in Durham reading the paper.Mr Khan stated that he was merely the custodian of our club.Perhaps it was Toffs,Americans,Japanese and tourists from other countries he was talking about. (NT) -- LegacyRog, Wednesday, November 20, 11:13:56am (5ec0f8a7.skybroadband.com/94.192.248.167)
      - Maybe so, if that's what it takes. The area, football landscape & country changed dramatically during our "lost" years. The mythical legacy hordes simply weren't there, their progeny siphoned off to neighbors, moves out of town & the rise of big club plastics. We've a small ground with limited growth options. No matter the drop-in-the-bucket argument vs TV revenue, attendance, concessions & merchandise revenue matters. Americans, Asians & "Toffs" are good for that. Seems sensible to target them (NT) -- eganonoa, Wednesday, November 20, 11:34:00am (NoHost/172.58.30.179)
        It isn’t just the new fans who have to pay those prices for tickets.I understand we are only seeing the terrific current football because of Mr Khan and appreciate it.Just sad that something is being lost in the mix.I was hanging on in the crap years were you?Clubs that are in their death throes get shite support.It’s a given. (NT) -- HemelRog, Wednesday, November 20, 12:14:05pm (5ec0f8a7.skybroadband.com/94.192.248.167)
        The club has spent the last 25 yrs building the fan base from 4k odd to the c 25k now. This has been achieved by success on the pitch and sensible pricing and eg kids for a kid. I personally think the 4k legacy fans are important but so are the fans picked up in the last 20 years. We have the most expensive non hospitality tickets in world football – the likes of Burnemouth/pb6Brentford/Brighton have found alternative ways of thriving. (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, November 20, 12:16:45pm (host86-134-9-66.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.9.66)
        Its the direction of travel but we are setting the pace. Tourist interest will drop off a cliff when we next get relegated and that will happen at some point. Don’t mind what the top end prices are if are limited in no – but the cheapest seat in the new stand for the Arsenal game is £150 and they consciously reduced the number of season ticket holders. I personally find it a little sad that the kids I used to go to games with in the 60/70s can no longer afford to go. (NT) -- f bloke, Wednesday, November 20, 12:22:58pm (host86-134-9-66.range86-134.btcentralplus.com/86.134.9.66)
        I honestly found the cap on season tickets more troublesome than the overall prices this year. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Wednesday, November 20, 02:49:17pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)

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