Re: The Central Metaphor for Evil -- ATPo Discussion Forum

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Date Posted: 06:46:32 10/18/05 Tue
Author: Cactus Watcher
Subject: Re: The Central Metaphor for Evil
In reply to: Darby 's message, "The Central Metaphor for Evil" on 18:32:41 10/17/05 Mon

You already said,

This is primarily a metaphor in overview; it's to be expected that all of the details of execution may not necessarily support the idea at every turn.

so I can't really expect an answer that will fit with your theory, but since the end of Buffy, I've thought of Willow as being the pivotal 'evil' character. The most innocent became the most evil. People (even likely some writers within ME) got hung up on the magic-as-drug metaphor and seem to forget that power was the real narcotic. Does Willow and her actions in the last two seasons fit into your religious scheme in any way? Does the difference between Buffy and the slayers, who had power forced on them, and Willow who chose to assume powers of her own fit?

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Replies:

Willow -- Darby, 07:02:14 10/18/05 Tue
- Willow and Religion -- Arethusa, 11:14:23 10/19/05 Wed
Re: The Central Metaphor for Evil -- skeeve, 16:59:33 10/25/05 Tue
- Yup, bake sales, their "power" was for sale -- Ann, 17:23:38 10/25/05 Tue
- Re: The Central Metaphor for Evil -- Sunshine, 09:53:12 10/26/05 Wed
  - Two points make a line, but do they make a paradigm? -- Sophist, 12:48:29 10/26/05 Wed
    - Re: Two points make a line, but do they make a paradigm? -- Sunshine, 14:33:00 10/26/05 Wed
      - No need to get all researchy -- Sophist, 16:00:08 10/26/05 Wed
        For argument's sake... -- manwitch, 16:55:48 10/26/05 Wed
        Re: No need to get all researchy -- Sunshine, 17:27:40 10/26/05 Wed
        I generally agree with you -- Sophist, 17:42:53 10/26/05 Wed
        Re: I generally agree with you -- Sunshine, 17:53:44 10/26/05 Wed
    - Free Lunches -- Celebaelin, 14:50:00 10/26/05 Wed
      - I was making a somewhat different point -- Sophist, 16:20:27 10/26/05 Wed
        Re: I was making a somewhat different point -- Celebaelin, 18:20:33 10/26/05 Wed
        Re: I was making a somewhat different point -- Sunshine, 19:12:03 10/26/05 Wed
        Laws of physics -- Sophist, 19:43:44 10/26/05 Wed
        Re: I was making a somewhat different point -- MaeveRigan, 05:17:09 10/30/05 Sun
        A couple of things about this -- manwitch, 04:35:33 10/27/05 Thu
        And just to clarify the point about Spike's statement... -- manwitch, 04:48:33 10/27/05 Thu
        Not forgetting (which obviously I was)... -- Celebaelin, 08:23:46 10/27/05 Thu
        Cause and consequence -- Sophist, 08:41:42 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Cause and consequence -- manwitch, 09:49:49 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Cause and consequence -- Sophist, 10:58:21 10/27/05 Thu
        In my spare time -- Celebaelin, 12:21:01 10/27/05 Thu
        I think you just proved too much -- Sophist, 12:52:51 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: surrection -- Celebaelin, 13:38:44 10/27/05 Thu
        Some quick counterexamples -- Sophist, 13:58:58 10/27/05 Thu
        And my counter -- Celebaelin, 14:27:37 10/27/05 Thu
        Why a scythe -- Sunshine, 14:54:03 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Why a scythe - translation problem ? -- Rich, 18:15:23 10/28/05 Fri
        Or -- Celebaelin, 03:25:30 10/29/05 Sat
        Re: Or -- Jane, 15:57:14 10/29/05 Sat
        True, but... -- Celebaelin, 16:10:45 10/29/05 Sat
        Re: Or -- manwitch, 04:46:07 10/31/05 Mon
        Holistic links -- Celebaelin, 05:03:12 10/31/05 Mon
        Coup de grass! Whilst we're OT -- Celebaelin, 15:13:03 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Coup de grass! Whilst we're OT -- Sunshine, 17:25:45 10/27/05 Thu
        Flaws in your counter -- Sophist, 15:44:07 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Flaws in your counter -- Sophist, 15:45:08 10/27/05 Thu
        Dancing lights and Faerie fire -- Celebaelin, 16:58:04 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Dancing lights and Faerie fire -- MarkM, 03:33:57 10/31/05 Mon
        Emphasis -- Celebaelin, 05:30:15 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Emphasis -- MarkM, 05:32:18 11/01/05 Tue
        Certainty -- Celebaelin, 06:17:29 11/02/05 Wed
        Agreed. (NT) -- Sophist, 08:40:34 10/31/05 Mon
    - Re: Two points make a line, but do they make a paradigm? -- Sunshine, 10:25:41 10/27/05 Thu
      - Addiction and responsibility -- Sophist, 12:39:25 10/27/05 Thu
        Is being a drunk a mitigating factor in my sentencing? -- manwitch, 12:56:21 10/27/05 Thu
        I like your suggestion very much. Thanks. (NT) -- Sophist, 13:25:50 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Addiction and responsibility -- Sunshine, 13:08:07 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Addiction and responsibility -- Sophist, 13:38:21 10/27/05 Thu
        Speaking of Xander... -- Sophist, 15:30:04 10/27/05 Thu
        Bastard Xander -- manwitch, 09:45:31 10/28/05 Fri
        Completely agree. -- Sophist, 10:06:24 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: Bastard Xander -- Sunshine, 11:23:27 10/28/05 Fri
        The term you are looking for is "whore chasing" -- manwitch, 11:58:24 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: The term you are looking for is "whore chasing" -- Sunshine, 12:33:35 10/28/05 Fri
        To me, the first question is.... -- Sophist, 13:15:16 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: To me, the first question is.... -- Sunshine, 13:43:27 10/28/05 Fri
        I have rewatched the scene -- Sunshine, 17:25:14 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: I have rewatched the scene -- Sophist, 18:12:38 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: I have rewatched the scene -- Sunshine, 18:47:53 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: I have rewatched the scene -- Sophist, 19:29:01 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: I have rewatched the scene -- Sunshine, 20:38:56 10/28/05 Fri
        I do. (NT) -- Sophist, 21:05:21 10/28/05 Fri
        I'm gonna swallow my tears... -- manwitch, 13:59:07 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: I'm gonna swallow my tears... -- Sunshine, 14:21:23 10/28/05 Fri
        Riley's choices were also somewhat limited, however -- Finn Mac Cool, 11:42:28 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Riley's choices were also somewhat limited, however -- Sunshine, 12:32:38 10/31/05 Mon
        Interesting point -- Xander was echoing Spike's advice on love -- Sophist, 12:48:44 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Interesting point -- Xander was echoing Spike's advice on love -- Finn Mac Cool, 21:22:46 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Riley's choices were also somewhat limited, however -- Celebaelin, 12:38:01 10/31/05 Mon
        Oh, and he was a convenient, low maintainance, relaxing sexual partner (NT) -- Celebaelin, 12:50:33 10/31/05 Mon
        But consider the context of what Buffy is going through -- manwitch, 14:10:51 10/31/05 Mon
        Stressful times -- Celebaelin, 14:26:49 10/31/05 Mon
        very funny -- manwitch, 13:47:04 11/01/05 Tue
        Re: very funny -- Finn Mac Cool, 17:04:51 11/01/05 Tue
        I think your analogy is too favorable to Riley -- Sophist, 17:55:42 11/01/05 Tue
        Re: I think your analogy is too favorable to Riley -- Finn Mac Cool, 20:45:49 11/01/05 Tue
        Suck jobs -- Celebaelin, 05:15:14 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: Suck jobs -- manwitch, 05:43:39 11/02/05 Wed
        Zed's dead (NT) -- Celebaelin, 06:26:18 11/02/05 Wed
        There is a certain Owenosity about him -- Sophist, 08:30:56 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: There is a certain Owenosity about him -- Finn Mac Cool, 11:31:22 11/02/05 Wed
        Our difference is just too fundamental I guess -- manwitch, 05:25:03 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: Our difference is just too fundamental I guess -- Finn Mac Cool, 11:47:03 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: Our difference is just too fundamental I guess -- Sunshine, 12:06:49 11/02/05 Wed
        Oops, screwed up the italics - was suppoesed to be -- Sunshine, 12:08:49 11/02/05 Wed
        Boy or toy? -- Celebaelin, 06:07:55 11/02/05 Wed
        Buffy is better off without Riley -- manwitch, 06:19:22 11/02/05 Wed
        SG orgy -- Celebaelin, 06:33:42 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: SG orgy -- manwitch, 09:00:40 11/02/05 Wed
        Xander is Buffy? -- Sunshine, 11:11:31 11/02/05 Wed
        I didn't write that (NT) -- Hini Nar, 16:10:22 11/02/05 Wed
        Buffy's attitude -- Rich, 17:41:05 10/28/05 Fri
Willow's Apologist -- manwitch, 10:06:02 10/27/05 Thu
- Re: Willow's Apologist -- Sunshine, 11:24:33 10/27/05 Thu
  - What do the potentials have forced upon them? -- manwitch, 12:01:08 10/27/05 Thu
    - I agree. -- Sophist, 12:42:37 10/27/05 Thu
      - Which would have been oh so easy to do, too -- manwitch, 13:00:50 10/27/05 Thu
    - Re: What do the potentials have forced upon them? -- Sunshine, 12:42:40 10/27/05 Thu
      - But it really isn't -- manwitch, 13:22:09 10/27/05 Thu
        Spidey -- Celebaelin, 13:54:52 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: Spidey -- Sunshine, 17:35:07 10/27/05 Thu
        I just come from a friendly neighbourhood (NT) -- Celebaelin, 17:52:03 10/27/05 Thu
        The Spidey Responsibilities -- manwitch, 06:13:47 10/28/05 Fri
        Re: The Spidey Responsibilities -- Celebaelin, 07:11:39 10/28/05 Fri
        Should potential failure be a consideration in one's moral stance? -- manwitch, 07:46:17 10/28/05 Fri
        Hard facts -- Celebaelin, 09:31:17 10/28/05 Fri
        Wellington -- Sunshine, 08:08:06 10/29/05 Sat
        Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough! -- Celebaelin, 09:15:51 10/29/05 Sat
        Re: Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough! -- Sunshine, 11:49:36 10/29/05 Sat
        But, but, but...oh alright -- Celebaelin, 13:38:03 10/29/05 Sat
        Re: But, but, but...oh alright -- Sunshine, 13:58:50 10/29/05 Sat
        Beyond you! (NT) -- Celebaelin, 14:25:52 10/29/05 Sat
        May I suggest a compromise ? -- Rich, 17:56:25 10/29/05 Sat
        Empires -- Celebaelin, 03:18:06 10/30/05 Sun
        Not entirley fair -- manwitch, 05:16:20 10/31/05 Mon
        Lee -- Celebaelin, 07:38:09 10/31/05 Mon
        Grant was the better general. -- Sophist, 08:57:38 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Grant was the better general. -- manwitch, 09:48:35 10/31/05 Mon
        Not sure if you're asking me... -- Sophist, 10:28:38 10/31/05 Mon
        Lee vs Grant -- Sunshine, 13:01:12 10/31/05 Mon
        Lee's strategy -- Sophist, 13:39:16 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Lee's strategy -- Sunshine, 14:05:40 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Lee -- What about that Stonewall, 14:43:26 10/31/05 Mon
        Jackson -- Sophist, 15:36:27 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Jackson -- Sunshine, 16:07:09 10/31/05 Mon
        nice post -- manwitch, 06:01:41 11/02/05 Wed
        IMHO, the South could have won... -- Rich, 07:48:08 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: nice post -- Sunshine, 11:56:59 11/02/05 Wed
        You don't think nuking Berlin might have helped ? (NT) -- Rich, 12:14:44 11/02/05 Wed
        You are correct - I sort of overlooked that (NT) -- Sunshines, 12:17:46 11/02/05 Wed
        And thus the case for the importance of an Indirect Strategy. -- fresne, 13:56:03 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: And thus the case for the importance of an Indirect Strategy. -- Sunshine, 14:27:41 11/02/05 Wed
        Strategy -- Celebaelin, 15:33:04 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Strategy -- Sunshine, 16:01:47 10/31/05 Mon
        T 34 -- Celebaelin, 16:47:24 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: T 34 -- Sunshine, 17:29:57 10/31/05 Mon
        War -- Celebaelin, 18:16:57 10/31/05 Mon
        Heh, and here I was thinking -- fresne, 14:19:06 11/01/05 Tue
        Khaki Angel (NT) -- Celebaelin, 05:28:21 11/02/05 Wed
        Fie, a pox upon it! -- fresne, 13:25:46 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: But it really isn't -- Sunshine, 14:35:30 10/27/05 Thu
        Re: But it really isn't -- Finn Mac Cool, 15:39:09 10/30/05 Sun
        Re: But it really isn't -- Sunshine, 12:16:00 10/31/05 Mon
        Me too (NT) -- Celebaelin, 12:45:51 10/31/05 Mon
        If we didn't enjoy the discussion... -- Rich, 14:28:07 10/31/05 Mon
        The amulet -- Sunshine, 15:01:48 10/31/05 Mon
        Pay attention to tone and not logistics -- Finn Mac Cool, 21:51:51 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Pay attention to tone and not logistics -- Sunshine, 23:43:19 10/31/05 Mon
        Re: Pay attention to tone and not logistics -- Finn Mac Cool, 09:58:15 11/01/05 Tue
        Re: But it really isn't -- manwitch, 08:43:33 11/02/05 Wed
        Re: But it really isn't -- manwitch, 04:31:28 10/31/05 Mon

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