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Subject: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Son of Eli [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:06:36 01/16/25 Thu Yale’s ranking has fallen precipitously in recent years from first to nearly last. Many factors can explain this, but I would say pricing is the prime reason. When I went to the Yale-Penn game last year I paid hard the price as a similar seat at Yale. https://x.com/harvardfootball/status/1879967684894593310?s=61&t=t_g6dsX6eJy2Ao8a-koX0A [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Old Blue [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:28:12 01/16/25 Thu Gentlemen; pricing is probably one of the biggest reasons. Drastically reduced prices for the Enzone areas may assist in future attendance. Next year, the Yale Harvard attendance will probably place our blue in the number one standing for attendance, but does not accurately reflect the lack of attendance at other games. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Son of Eli [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:46:21 01/16/25 Thu Since 2022 Yale has slipped from 4th place to 7th . https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2022-attendance-leaders-bzbz/?mibextid=Zxz2cZ&fbclid=IwAR0gxyupmZyXRJFt3SicvdjC1s9u4u2iklcaiz0qOllyo9ux41XEQ_dhtSA [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Son of Eli [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:02:03 01/16/25 Thu Yale was #1 in league attended without hosting Harvard as recently as 2014. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2014.pdf [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:33:55 01/16/25 Thu Reported attendance figures are about as reliable as the FTX exchange run by Samuel Bankman-Fried [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: L et V [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:22:48 01/16/25 Thu All this during a run of good teams. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: You're on the right path Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:13:30 01/17/25 Fri Both Yale and Penn's attendance figures nosedived shortly after a change in athletic administrations. A popular theory was that the previous administrations played games with attendance numbers, but their replacements wanted to report the "real" numbers. The "drop" in attendance is simply what was accurate all along. Yale (and Penn) are just being honest about it now. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: You're on the right path Author: voy vey [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:04:06 01/17/25 Fri There's no question in my mind that previous Yale AD Beckett's administration padded the announced attendance figures. However, it seems equally obvious to my eyes that attendance has dropped even further since those days. So, reporting "real" numbers now does not completely account for the decrease. What else contributes? That's a long discussion which has been picked apart many times here and elsewhere. Pricing is some of it, but plenty of other factors come into play (fan experience, food, time frames, promotion/lack thereof, neighborhood outreach/lack thereof, changing student demographics, etc. etc. etc.) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: You're on the right path Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:39:47 01/17/25 Fri Two things to note: The average annual media buy for Ivy League Football is close to $0. Some schools may do some banner ad purchases on social media, but for the most part, there is no effort to get the message out to the ticket buying population that the games are being played. The Ivies are insisting that people find them, rather than finding new fans. The ESPN+ broadcast deal has surely cannibalized attendance. With no reason to actually go (in-stadium experiences are not so wonderful - mediocre to poor food choices, few fan amenities, trough toilets in some places), more than a few die hards, especially students, have no problem watching from home. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Don't Tax Your Most Enthusiastic Alumni, For God's Sake Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:10:57 01/16/25 Thu Ivy League football pricing strategies range from (A), "This is not going to be a profit-generating exercise under any circumstance so we'll price low as a service to our alumni" all the way to (B) "Attendance is price inelastic. Given that fact, our economics department would tell us to maximize revenue by pricing high." For a few years about a decade or so ago, Princeton priced their tickets at $5 a head. Then they gradually walked up that price over a number of years. The Tigers are an example of Pricing Strategy A. Yale is clearly a believer in Pricing Strategy B. What most irks me is that the Yale-Harvard game is a special occasion which the university could treat like a reunion. No reasonable Ivy alumni office prices its reunion tickets to make a profit. Reunions exist to promote alumni affection for the university. It doesn't make sense to squeeze another $50 per head out of attendees, especially when you are really trying to get them to write a check for thousands. Similarly, why would you price football tickets, especially The Game, to maximize revenue? Price the tickets to raise SOME revenue, sure, but don't make it so obvious that a bunch of high ranking administrators have sat around a conference room table asking each other, "What's the most that we could charge? What's the ceiling here?" Treat it more like a reunion and try to get a few extra checks denominated in the tens of thousands. The pricing of Yale-Harvard tickets is a tax on alumni, specifically the exact alumni individuals who are most likely to write a check with a digit or two or three to the left of the comma. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Don't Tax Your Most Enthusiastic Alumni, For God's Sake Author: Old Blue [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:29:21 01/17/25 Fri Gentlemen; unfortunately, I have to agree the cantabs do a far superior job of marketing, their sports, especially football compared to our blue squad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it starts with the athletic Director who controls the athletic department, including marketing and publicity. it may be time to go back to the 50s and 60s strategy to increase in attendance including free entry for children under 12 and under in the end zone seats. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Eli1143770312 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:07:38 01/16/25 Thu The cost of my Yale season tickets for all five home games was approximately equal to the per game cost of my New York Football Giants season tickets. It’s pretty trivial. Students get free admission but the majority of the students at the Yale games this season played on the team. Student attendance has dwindled over the decades I’ve been attending Yale games and is now next to non-existent other than for the Harvard game. If the students don’t attend, those same people won’t start attending as alumni. Yale used to attract a local non-Yale affiliated crowd too and that has also dwindled over the years. Other factors? As wonderful as the Bowl is, it is cavernous and it is depressing while 50,000 plus seats are empty. Yale hires gate attendants who are often rude and Yale imposes rules for those attending that make attendance annoying (they’ve refused admission for people bringing in non-beverage food, for example). Yale does a poor job publicizing the upcoming games. Because I purchased tickets from Harvard for this year’s Harvard game, I was on the Harvard football email distribution list for the entire season and Harvard’s communications put Yale to shame. For years when The Game is in New Haven, the traffic to get into the lots is awful. Some of that is inevitable but Yale exacerbates it by funneling the cars into very few entry points. Maybe that sounds like that old Yogi story that no one goes there anymore because it’s so crowded, but the bad experience people have when they do show up in New Haven for a game has an impact. There’s no one cause for the sorry state of Yale football attendance but I’ve seen nothing that makes it seem likely to turn around. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Son of Eli [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:00:55 01/17/25 Fri Excellent points. I would also add to the list of factors the ending of the tradition allowing fans onto the field after the game. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Fans on The Field After The Game Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:56:02 01/17/25 Fri I would love to have an athletic department spokesman explain why fans are no longer allowed onto the field after a game. To me, this is a small problem, if one at all. But why WOULDN'T you allow fans onto the field? It costs you nothing, absolutely nothing. Meanwhile, it was a lot of fun to see the families of the players on the field after the final whistle, talking to their son/brother after a hard fought game, not to mention all the kids running around and throwing footballs back and forth. I can attest that my kid absolutely loved running around the field. She loves sports. It was a thrill for her to be on the field where the adults were playing. Allowing fans onto the field is a clear and obvious differentiation between what our schools can offer and what pro teams give their fans. Why not offer it? Families with kids appreciate tiring out their little ones before loading everybody back in the car for the long drive home. This a benefit which costs nothing to offer. Why would you not do it? You're selling a product here. If you were selling a car and could offer floor mats at no cost, why wouldn't you? Nobody's going to buy the car just for the floor mats, but some fans would appreciate it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fans on The Field After The Game Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:16:46 01/17/25 Fri And one more reason why Tort Reform is necessary. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: IvySportsJunkie [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:23:00 01/17/25 Fri While I am disappointed with the declining trends for Ivy League football attendance, I want to provide some perspective for those who feel the Ivy League is heading in the direction of becoming part of D3 athletic conferences. Let's look at the four D3 programs that would be considered most comparable to Ivy League in terms of academics and having stronger D3 football - Amherst, Williams, MIT and University of Chicago. In 2024, the average per game attendance was only 1,646 for Amherst, 1,156 for Williams, 387 for MIT and 431 for University of Chicago. The combined 2024 average per game attendance for these four D3 school is only 932 persons. This compares to the 2024 Ivy League average per game of 6,194, which is nearly 7 times greater than the average for these four D3 football programs. More importantly, if you look at the average per game attendance for their rival teams in their conferences, it is even more pathetic. Yes, it is discouraging about our Ivy attendance and the recent trend of losing players to the transfer portal due to NIL differences. However, the Ivy League clearly is miles above any of the comparable D3 athletic programs in terms of athletic talent, fan base support and football traditions. My own high school football and basketball team are able generate far better fan support than these four D3 programs. The Ivy League moving in the direction of participating in D3 athletics would be a disaster on so many levels. Food for Thought [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:31:42 01/17/25 Fri What makes you think that the powers that be would rather NOT be associated with Williams and Amherst than St. John's and Nebraska? This is a lost opportunity for the Ivy League. Division 1 sports can and should be a community relations and marketing tool. All eight schools are underwater in terms of perception from the general public, including in their home towns (maybe Dartmouth and Princeton excepted). That they still play the "membership in an exclusive club" game with regard to how they relate to a populist endeavor like spectator sports is very telling. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Son of Eli [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:55:06 01/17/25 Fri I couldn’t agree more observer, but I hope that the recent decision to compete with the “unwashed masses” in the FCS playoffs reflects a change to that elitist paradigm. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: OldBlue [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:48:10 01/17/25 Fri That Harvard slide is silly, because it's all about "The Game" (Yale-Harvard). In 2023, when "The Game" was played at Yale, attendance was 51,127 (per the Yale Athletic Department website). In 2024, when it was held at the much smaller Harvard Stadium, attendance was 27,105 (same source). Per the Harvard Athletic Department website, attendance for the two other Ivy League games played at Harvard in 2024 (Columbia and Princeton) was 7,011 and 12,244. So, swapping the Yale game for another at-home Ivy game would probably have reduced Harvard's total by around 20,000. Similarly, if The Game had been at Yale, the Yale total would have risen by as much as 40,000 and Yale might have been at the top of that table instead of Harvard. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Eli1143770312 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:46:14 01/17/25 Fri One other negative factor affecting Yale’s crowd sizes: the games now start at noon, requiring most of the potential attendees to leave home very early in the morning and adversely affecting the ability to enjoy pre-game tailgating. In the 1960’s and 1970’s, early season games started at 1:30 pm and later season games started at 1 pm. The combination of the potential of overtime games and a lack of lighting at the Bowl drove the decision to start the games so early. Since the 2019 halftime protest debacle, Yale has rented lighting for late season games but hasn’t changed the start times. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Ivy League Football Attendance Author: Boola Boola [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:32:38 01/18/25 Sat Agreed [ Post a Reply to This Message ]