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• This board is now closed. -- Judie, 22:49:30 07/10/10 Sat [1]
  .
  .
  It was a great run, but this board is now closed. This book can be discussed on the Books Board.
  
  Thanks.
  
  Judie
  

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• Interesting Wiki bit about the Batte of Krefeld where John was wounded: "After feigning an attack against Clermont's own right flank, Ferdinand executed a wide flanking march, crossing the canal out of sight of the French and emerging from a wooded area on Clermont's left flank. Clermont, who had just sat down for a midday meal, was late in sending reinforcements and, as a result, his left flank was crushed. The Comte de Gisors, the popular, charismatic, only child of the French minister of War, the Comte de Belle-Isle, was mortally wounded while charging at the head of the French Carabiniers. The Comte de St. Germain, who commanded the French left wing, was nevertheless able to put together a sufficient defense to prevent a complete rout, and the French army retired from the field in relatively good order." -- kgp, 08:12:10 06/01/10 Tue [16]
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  • St Germain, huh? Do you have a timeline on this, is it our Comte? (NT) -- jayn, 16:46:21 06/01/10 Tue
    • 23 June 1758 - I believe it's our Comte. (NT) -- kgp, 06:04:28 06/02/10 Wed
      • Sorry, what I meant, being the lazy person I am, when was this battle re the books? (NT) -- jayn, 06:52:50 06/02/10 Wed
        • BOTB while Jamie is at Helwater. This is after Percy's arrest. (NT) -- kgp, 07:25:40 06/02/10 Wed
    • Wasn't "our" Comte killed by Raymond's poison in August 1745? (NT) -- STargove, 06:51:21 06/02/10 Wed
      • Well, now see. There is some confusion over this. We didn't actually see him die, we saw him collapse, then Claire and Louis left. Raymond knows a lot about drugs and we don't really know much about Raymond - it is completely within reason that Raymond made a drink that would knock someone out but not kill them, remember in the standards of medicine in those days, Louis' guards might not even have checked for a pulse, just let STG's people take him away. Maybe he did it deliberately because he is with StG, maybe he did it to 'kidnap' StG, or maybe he was afraid he or Claire would have to drink the stuff. One of my pet theories involves StG being very much alive and being the one behind Percy, for good or not I don't know, he wouldn't be the first man to have a deathbed repentance. (NT) -- jayn, 06:56:57 06/02/10 Wed
        • If he is dead though, wouldn't the title go to his nephew or cousin or someone like that? (NT) -- jayn, 06:57:36 06/02/10 Wed
          • or his legitimate heir. It will be interesting to see how Diana unravels this. (NT) -- kgp, 07:27:35 06/02/10 Wed
            • If Percy can produce this marriage certificate then Fergus is the legit heir - assuming Percy is telling the truth, of course. (NT) -- jayn, 11:59:08 06/02/10 Wed
      • Oops, make that 1744. (NT) -- STargove, 06:57:26 06/02/10 Wed
      • Jayn, you are the master of intrigue! :-) I took his death at face value, but you're right, there are ways to get him out of it. That said, I believe there's a reference in one of the later books to the Comte's mysterious disappearance, which would argue against him being openly in the military in 1758. But he could still be lurking around... (NT) -- STargove, 07:08:03 06/02/10 Wed
        • Or - this one could be the one who claimed the title after the 'our' Comte disappeared following Raymond's draught. Or, it could openly be 'ours'. Jamie and Claire didn't stick around and no further notice of him was given in the books until Percy shows up looking for Fergus. Neither Jamie or Claire cared much about the Seven Years War. (NT) -- kgp, 08:30:57 06/02/10 Wed
        • He disapeared mysteriously alright, but wouldn't you disapear if Louis thought you were dead? I'm not the master, herself is, I just have way too much time to think about these things *G*, but thanks anyway. (NT) -- jayn, 11:58:32 06/02/10 Wed
          • Maybe Louis had an alterior motive for wanting the Comte to 'appear' dead for the sake of intrigue involving one of the other witnesses in the room at the time. He was also a devious little shyte. (NT) -- kgp, 12:27:34 06/02/10 Wed
  • Today is the birthday of Jean-Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur, comte de Rochambeau who fought at Krefeld and was wounded in 1758. I wonder if he knew John Grey, haha. (NT) -- JanR, 09:15:56 07/01/10 Thu
  
  

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• Do you suppose Lord John and Stephan von Namtzen will ever have or have had a relationship? -- kgp, 12:03:03 05/28/10 Fri [5]
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  • I don't think they have yet, but I hope they will. I think they'd be good together. (NT) -- Stargove, 16:55:02 05/28/10 Fri
  • I really hoped they would in Succubus, when the idea first presented itself. Then, (which book was it when John went to visit and Stephan was basically trying to kill himself?) I really hoped it would happen. They are very similar men and it wouldn't be hard at all for John to come up with a reason to more or less live with Stephan, even if only part time. The only fly in that ointment is Louisa, although I don't think she particularly cares for Stephan, as such, she just needs an appropriate husband. That 'affair' was always bitter-sweet to me. (NT) -- jayn (), 19:14:17 05/28/10 Fri
    • It was in BOTB and John went there to recuperate after his surgery following Crefeld. I wonder if those months led to anything and if we'll ever hear of it. (NT) -- kgp, 06:19:19 06/01/10 Tue
  • I would doubt it; there is no reason for a relationship. When did John see him last...around 1758? It's almost 20 years later. They maybe had a chance to be together in Succubus, but it didn't happen. I think he views him as a friend, not necessarily as a lover. (NT) -- JanR, 10:16:13 05/30/10 Sun
  
  

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• John just gouged out Adam's eye - bleaagh! What did you all think of that? What about Benedicta meaning to meet the man on her own? -- kgp, 05:25:53 05/25/10 Tue [5]
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  • Yeah, that was pretty icky. I think it was a bit foolish of Benedita to think she could do this herself but I understand why she didn't want to involve her boys. Maybe she thought that even if he killed her it would be worth it for the Grey family honour? (NT) -- jayn, 09:36:54 05/25/10 Tue
    • I had to listen a couple of times to really understand Benedicta's logic - of course she wants to protect her sons but I can't see how she would have thought Adams would have written a confession just because of a loaded, cocked pistol. If she hadn't shot him straight off what would have prevented him from running or calling upon the coachman for help? (NT) -- kgp, 09:03:52 05/26/10 Wed
      • I went and reread that part, think I'm going to have to reread the whole book - again - there is just so much with the whole series. As far as I can tell Benedicta's motive in acting alone was the same as it had been ever since Gerard's death. As far as she knows she and the killer are the only ones who know Gerard didn't kill himself, and she knows if her boys find out the truth they won't rest until justice is served (their own kind, perhaps) and their father's name is cleared. Benedicta feels she would rather risk herself than the boys. I kind of wonder though about how clearly she thought this part out. We know how inaccurate pistols are unless you are close enough for the victim to grab you, Adam would know that and he would also know that Benedicata might threaten but she wouldn't likely shoot. IMO she would have been wiser to have told the boys everything at this point and had the 3 of them confront Adams together, with maybe a noble or 2 listening in the wings. (NT) -- jayn, 05:18:12 05/27/10 Thu
        • I was surprised she hadn't confided in Hal, though I understand why. But she also has other friends and spheres of influence that she could have used. I'd like to meet her someday. (NT) -- kgp, 05:31:25 05/27/10 Thu
  
  

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• I'm listening (again) to Brotherhood of the Blade and am at Geneva's funeral. John's encounter with Jamie in the chapel during the night just gives me chills. First, that Jamie was so remorseful and blaming himself for her death and then John figuring things out as he sat in the cold stillness letting the pieces fall into place - "Oh, my dear. What have you done?" -- kgp, 06:06:09 05/19/10 Wed [9]
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  • It's telling that he knew Geneva was to blame, not Jamie. (NT) -- Stargove, 07:58:08 05/19/10 Wed
  • I had to reread this scene and think about it for a bit - the first time I read it for the bald face of things, but on a rereading it really is an incredibly poignant scene. I don't think anyone except Jamie blames himself for what happened to Geneva, but he is convinced to his soul that he is to blame. Knowledge of that guilt must add another layer to John's feelings when he becomes William's father in Jamie's place, yet it is never spoken of again between them. When John said 'my dear' I wonder whether he was referring to Jamie or Geneva, or if he even knew himself. (NT) -- jayn, 06:08:19 05/21/10 Fri
    • I assumed it was Geneva but you're right. It could be either one, except I don't think John ever dares to even think of Jamie as "my dear". In DOA he asks Bri if he may call her "my dear", he doesn't assume that intimacy. He's known Geneva since she was 5 though. (NT) -- kgp, 11:21:56 05/21/10 Fri
      • Well he's certainly never called Jamie that out loud, (I can only imagine the carnage *G*) but he does call Percy my dear, and I'm pretty sure I remember him calling various others that as well (Olivia, Minnie etc). I took it that LJ calls Jamie my dear in thought but he would never let it slip out loud because he is so very careful every minute they are together. That is JIMO. (NT) -- jayn, 07:56:52 05/22/10 Sat
  • Funny, it never even occured to me that John might have been referring to Jamie. That puts a different spin on things! (NT) -- Stargove, 07:27:30 05/21/10 Fri
  • I think John was referring to Geneva. Up to that point he had no reason to believe Jamie was involved in anyway. (NT) -- JanR, 08:07:27 05/21/10 Fri
    • I think when John said that was the moment he realized. John is very perceptive; he knew there was something wrong with the Dunsanys that was"beyond the tragedy of Geneva's death", add to that Jamie's odd behaviour, which John realizec was penance, and the way he said "I was her" groom (my italics). The next day at the funeral John knew full well about William's parentage. (NT) -- jayn, 09:03:16 05/21/10 Fri
  • Another thought (one of those days *G*). Maybe John didn't know himself which one he was thinking of, or both? (NT) -- jayn, 07:58:00 05/22/10 Sat
  
  

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• Someone say something... anything...I need my John Grey fix! -- JanR, 21:45:20 05/14/10 Fri [11]
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  • hmm. Well, I've said it before but if you need a fix I'll say it again. If I went through the stones tomorrow, knowing everything I know, I think I'd make a play for LJ. He is intelligent, educated, physically attractive, he likes and respects women as people and 'allows' them to have an opinion and a life. He has social position and money. And none of that pesky sex nonsense. I could be happily married to John, plan the odd dinner party, run his social life and spend his money. I am too old for tramping over mountains and eating roots and squirrels (a beach lounger is my idea of camping). Plus I don't think I could take Claire, even if I could Jamie only has eyes for her. (NT) -- jayn, 18:29:31 05/16/10 Sun
    • ROTFL!!!! Hell, yes - I'd cover for John anyday. He cracks me up and I think I'd get along fine with Benedicta as a MIL. (NT) -- kgp, 09:06:44 05/17/10 Mon
    • Hell Yes to everything Jayn said. A beach lounger is my idea of camping. I've hated actual camping since annual family trips as a child. It wouldn't hurt for a waiter bearing a big drink with an umbrella in it to go with that beach lounger! (NT) -- Lemora, 19:52:41 05/28/10 Fri
  • Lord John Gray -- JanR, 08:48:36 05/19/10 Wed
    • Oops, I spelled his name wrong, aaahhhhh. (NT) -- JanR, 08:50:39 05/19/10 Wed
    • Despite LJ'd preferences I think he could possibly even make me happy enough that way...and there's always the gardener, the pool boy, the cook (no wait, not him), the..... (NT) -- jayn, 10:11:59 05/19/10 Wed
      • The Gamekeeper, Jayn! Haven't you read "Lady Chatterly's Lover"!? Though he'd have to be better than Oliver Mellors. I don't think they had pool boys in those days. Then, there's the Head Horse Groom, and possibly some footmen, and a valet or two or three.... (NT) -- Lemora, 19:56:12 05/28/10 Fri
  • I'd take him, too! Of course, there we'd be, both lusting after a tall red-head... (NT) -- Stargove, 16:59:02 05/20/10 Thu
    • Yes but we're lusting after him anyway so might as well have LJ's advantages while we're doing it. *G* (NT) -- jayn, 18:35:24 05/20/10 Thu
      • I see a lot of benefits to being Lady John Grey. I think we would be great friends. (NT) -- kgp, 05:45:09 05/21/10 Fri
  
  

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• "Custom" poll -- Karen Henry, 12:42:45 05/01/10 Sat [4]
  Please take a moment to vote in the May poll on my site, Outlandish Observations. This month's poll is all about readers' reactions to "The Custom of the Army".
  
  I would really love to hear from those of you who've actually read the story! :-)
  
  Thanks,
  Karen
  

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  • I voted I loved it! (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 17:41:09 05/02/10 Sun
  • LOL! Karen, I found myself agreeing with so many of the posted choices that I finally just summed it up by voting that I loved it. *G* (NT) -- Lady Jay, 15:00:52 05/07/10 Fri
    • Ditto, except I think I voted I wish it had been longer. (NT) -- jayn, 06:49:27 05/08/10 Sat
  
  

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• QOTD for Sunday, April 25, 2010 -- kgp, 04:45:05 04/25/10 Sun [4]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  "Father LeCarré took the bundle gently from him, turning back the blanket to look at the child's face. The boy was awake; he pawed at the air, and the priest put out a finger for him to grasp.
  
  "Ah," he said, seeing the clear signs of mixed blood, and Grey knew the priest thought the child was his. He started to explain, but after all, what did it matter?"
  

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  • I'm not ignoring you Karen, I think maybe there just isn't anything more to say about the story? (NT) -- jayn, 08:25:41 04/30/10 Fri
    • It's been an intersting discussion though. And I will admit I've revised my first impression. Yes, I was disapointed but I think I was just wanting so much more, anything short of book 8 would have disapointed me. The Exile is at least a full lenth novel (well, full for some writers), I look forward to it for my fix. In my defense I did read all 7 Outlander plus all 3 LJ books in about 10 weeks, I'm not used to having to space them yet. *G* (NT) -- jayn, 08:29:43 04/30/10 Fri
  • John seems to have a "care taker" personality. We start to see it more and more. (NT) -- JanR, 09:59:26 04/30/10 Fri
  
  

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• I have one more quote picked out for tomorrow then I'm away for most of the next three weeks. We've about spanned the whole story but if someone else would llike to fill in the gaps that would be great. -- kgp, 12:16:19 04/24/10 Sat [1]
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• QOTD for Saturday, April 24, 2010 -- kgp, 04:27:57 04/24/10 Sat [3]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  "Grey was conscious of a most extraordinary array of sensations. Relief, yes, there was a sense of profound relief, as of one waking from a nightmare. There was also a sense of injustice, colored by the beginnings of indignation; by God, he had nearly been married! He might, of course, also have been maimed or killed as a result of the imbroglio, but that seemed relatively inconsequent; he was a soldier, after all - such things happened. His hand trembled slightly as he set the note down. Beneath relief, gratitude and indignation was a growing sense of horror.
  
  I thought it might ease your mind. . . He could see Hunter's face, saying this, sympathetic, intelligent, and cheerful. It was a straightforward remark, but one fully cognizant of its own irony."
  

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  • LOL - Either married or killed or maimed, not much difference to LJ? (NT) -- jayn, 05:07:22 04/24/10 Sat
  • And yet he does end up getting married, twice. Both times because of his love for Jamie. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 09:42:33 04/24/10 Sat
  
  

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• QOTD for Friday, April 23, 2010 -- kgp, 15:30:49 04/23/10 Fri [2]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  
  "Hold . . . hold . . . "
  
  The swords fell as one.
  
  "Fire!" And the ground shook.
  
  A shout rose in his throat, part of the roar of the army, and he was charging with the men near him, swinging his saber with all his might, finding flesh.
  
  The volley had been devastating; bodies littered the ground. He leaped over a fallen Frenchman, brought his saber down upon another caught halfway in the act of loading, took him in the cleft between neck and shoulder, yanked his saber free of the falling man and went on."
  

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  • Even their 'nice lines' to fight are pretty horrible. How can men think was and fighting are good things? But so many do (and women). (NT) -- jayn, 16:39:44 04/23/10 Fri
  
  

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• QOTD for Thursday, April 22, 2010 -- kgp, 18:43:23 04/21/10 Wed [4]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  "Another volley, close enough this time that several British soldiers in the front lines fell, knocked down by musket fire.
  
  "Hold, hold!" The order rattled down the lines like gunfire. The brimstone smell of slow match was thick, pungent above the scent of powder-smoke; the arillery men held their fire as well.
  
  French cannon fired, and balls bounced murderously across the field, but they seemed puny, ineffectual despite the damage they did. How many French? He wondered. Perhaps twice as many, but it didn't matter. It wouldn't matter.
  
  Sweat ran down his face, and he rubbed a sleeve to clear his eyes.
  
  "Hold"
  

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  • The British and the French were still fighting by the 'nice' rules where they stood in neat lines and fired at each other, how could you go on being behind the line that fell? Guys, guys, can't we just settle this over a nice hockey game? Maybe if the Brits hadn't stopped - that is to say, if they had eliminated the French influence then and there - maybe Canada wouldn't be bilingual today? Politics we'll never know. (I'm not meaning to suggest the Brits should have fought on, or that La Belle Province is a bad thing, I personally like the whole bilingual thing, (although I'm not), only commenting on the little seemingly unimportant things that shape so much later) (NT) -- jayn, 16:57:13 04/22/10 Thu
    • I know - I'm stunned that after all the effort overnight they stood there and waited for the French to rise and shine before attacking. Amazing. Today's quote will be late - sorry. (NT) -- kgp, 05:40:48 04/23/10 Fri
  • I wonder what they would think if they could see how battles are fought now. I'm sure they would be appalled. (NT) -- JanR, 08:48:16 04/23/10 Fri
  
  

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• QOTD for Wednesday, April 21, 2010 -- kgp, 03:36:42 04/21/10 Wed [6]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  "Twenty-four of the Highlanders were meant to try the ascent first, finding - and insofar as possible, clearing, for the cliff was defended not only by its steepness but also by abates, nests of sharpened logs - a trail for the rest. Simon's bulky form faded into the dark, his French accent changing at once into the sibilant Gaelic as he hissed the men into position. Grey rather missed his presence.
  
  He was not sure whether Wolfe had chosen the Highlanders for their skill at climbing, or because he preferred to risk them rather than his other troops. The latter, he thought."
  

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  • Little did Wolfe know this was just climbing the front steps of their homes for these guys. (NT) -- jayn, 05:03:17 04/21/10 Wed
  • The condescension and snobbery of the British toward the Scots, Highlanders in particular, always irks me. (NT) -- kgp, 06:39:04 04/21/10 Wed
    • It urks me and makes me laugh at the same time. They felt the same way towards the 'untrained and undisciplined' American rebels and look how well that went. The whole 'God is an Englishman' thing. (NT) -- jayn, 07:58:44 04/21/10 Wed
    • I get the feeling it still exists somewhat to this day according to my Scot pen pal. (NT) -- JanR, 17:13:48 04/21/10 Wed
      • There's still hostile muttering among the American-Scots I dance with if anyone mentions the '45. (NT) -- kgp, 19:18:20 04/21/10 Wed
  
  

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• QOTD for Tuesday, April 20, 2010 -- kgp, 18:55:29 04/19/10 Mon [8]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  
  "Quel est c'est bateau?" What boat is that? the shout from the shore seemed anticlimax when it came, barely more remarkable than a night bird's call. But the next instant, Simon Fraser's hand crushed his, grinding the bones together as Fraser gulped air and shouted, "Celui de la Reine!"
  
  Grey clenched his teeth, not to let any blasphemous response escape. If the sentry demanded a password, he'd likely be crippled for life, he thought. An instant later, though, the sentry shouted, Passez!" and Fraser's death-grip relaxed. Simon was breathing like a bellows, but nudged him and whispered "Pardon," again.
  
  "De fucking rien," he muttered, rubbing his hand and tenderly flexing his fingers."
  

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  • LJ finally got to hold hands with a Fraser *G*. (NT) -- jayn, 05:15:38 04/20/10 Tue
    • ROFL, I don't think that thought crossed his mind, but that's funny. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 05:30:55 04/20/10 Tue
  • I love that last line, it makes me laugh every time. Actually when I was just reading it I laughed and DH asked what I was laughing at, so I had to explain the whole story to him, LOL. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 05:29:59 04/20/10 Tue
  • The more I read these excerpts the more I think I have to bite the bullet and buy the book to read at least this one story! (NT) -- CarolSR, 06:19:48 04/20/10 Tue
    • Custom is only what - 60 pages? With many more QOTD, you'll have read the entire story pretty soon. (NT) -- Deena, 06:55:01 04/21/10 Wed
  • Grey must have noticed the family resemblance. I wonder if he'll share this story with Jamie. (NT) -- kgp, 07:10:54 04/20/10 Tue
  • John griped but he understood the tension. I'm sure he didn't mind the contact. (NT) -- DawnW., 08:42:17 04/20/10 Tue
  
  

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• QOTD for Monday, April 19, 2010 -- kgp, 17:34:23 04/18/10 Sun [5]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  "Malcolm was breathing hard, one hand clutching his abused thigh, but was regaining his composure.
  
  "It's nothing," he said. " Nothing to do with Olivia at all." He swallowed, wiped a hand across his mouth, and took a cautious glance at the miniature in his hand. "That th esprat, is it? Good . . . good-looking lad. Looks like me, don't he?"
  
  Grey kicked him brutally in the stomach."
  

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  • Malcolm isn't one of our more gentlemanly characters, is he? I can't remember but I'm pretty sure I wasn't all that impressed with him when he first asked if he could court Olivia, I think in Private Matter? (NT) -- jayn, 18:41:18 04/18/10 Sun
    • I can't remember much about him from then, either. Does he have a title?? (NT) -- Deena, 19:50:25 04/18/10 Sun
      • Stubbs was the lieutenant who helped LJ with the Irish murderer mystery. His father is a minor baronet, he has a little money but not a lot; he is not a member of The Beefsteak and I got the idea (IMO) that he wouldn't quite pass muster to be allowed to join. When Stubbs asked to court Olivia he admitted that she has better prospects; I got the impression that he wasn't a great suitor less due to rank or money but more that he is uncouth and just not-so-nice. Again, IMO, Stubbs is one of the characters whose name reflects what is he. (NT) -- jayn, 05:03:02 04/19/10 Mon
  • I was irked that he referred to his son as 'the sprat'. He and Olivia married soon after Trevalyen decamped and that scandal blew over. Olivia deserves better imo - but marriage at their social strata is more about position than love. It was an advantageous match for him and he admires her for her looks at least (her nice 'seat' on horseback, etc) and I think she might have done better but for the scandal. Getting married to someone of at least equal standing quickly would get her out of the gossip web. (NT) -- kgp, 05:15:22 04/19/10 Mon
  
  

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• QOTD for Sunday, April 18, 2010 -- kgp, 17:42:55 04/17/10 Sat [2]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  
  "Wolfe was eyeing Grey, in the manner of a small boy bursting to share some secret.
  
  "D'you understand Highlanders, Colonel?"
  
  Grey blinked, surprised.
  
  "Insofar as such a thing is possible, sir," he replied politely, and Wolfe brayed with laughter."
  

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  • ROFL. Too bad this Wolfe couldn't have shared some of his evident tolerance with the other Wolfe (the one who tried to marry Jocasta). He may not have understood Highlanders but at least he has a sense of humour about it. (NT) -- jayn, 06:02:47 04/18/10 Sun
  
  

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• QOTD for Saturday, April 17, 2010 -- kgp, 18:08:47 04/16/10 Fri [15]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  "What do I taste like?" he'd asked, out of curiosity.
  
  Manoke, absorbed in his business, had said something that might have been, "Cock," but might equally have been some expression of mild disgust, so Grey thought better of pursuing this line of inquiry. Besides, if he did taste of beef and biscuit or Yorkshire pudding, would the Indian recognize that? For that matter, did he really want to know, if he did? He did not, he decided, and they enjoyed the rest of the evening without benefit of conversation."
  

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  Replies:

  • This isn't the first time LJ's has wondered what he tastes like - he described himself as "faintly salt bland, as egg white". Sometimes John over-thinks things, just enjoy the moment, man! (NT) -- jayn, 18:22:57 04/16/10 Fri
    • it's an odd insecurity (NT) -- kgp, 03:58:34 04/17/10 Sat
      • I don't know if it's an insecurity or just an odd curiosity. He seems to enjoy tasting his partners (or trying to describe how they taste). I think he just wonders if they think about it the same way he does. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 06:03:23 04/17/10 Sat
  • DG describes tastes and smells a lot in her writing. I think that's part of why I find her scenes more realistic and absorbing that those of other writers. All my senses are engaged to make me really feel like I'm there. (NT) -- Stargove, 07:15:29 04/17/10 Sat
    • I know what you mean. I'm not sure I want to be there tasting Manoke, lol. I must confess, however, that LJ's love scenes don't bother me as much as they should (I wonder what that says about me?) (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 11:08:07 04/17/10 Sat
      • What leads you to think they "should" bother you? (NT) -- sharon fisher, 17:33:01 04/17/10 Sat
        • Short answer is my religious beliefs. But since I've known quite a few homosexuals, my personal beliefs on the subject are complicated. Also, since I am not a homosexual man, I really didn't expect to enjoy the sex scenes. But because I love LJ so much I am happy for him when he can connect with someone. Also, Diana's writing is so sensual that I hardly notice it's two men. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 18:02:58 04/17/10 Sat
  • Maybe I'm dumb OR naive OR both - but just what is Manoke "tasting" here? (NT) -- Deena, 08:47:25 04/18/10 Sun
    • umm.. I think you've got two choices here - kissing or oral sex... (NT) -- Stargove, 12:00:01 04/18/10 Sun
      • Considering what LJ thinks Manoke's answer sounds like, I would guess it is the latter. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 12:57:58 04/18/10 Sun
        • Well, that's what I thought - oral sex. But who asks someone that?? (NT) -- Deena, 14:18:24 04/18/10 Sun
          • Apparently, LJ does. didn't he ask Percy the same thing? Or was he just thinking about it? I think he enjoys deciphering the tastes of his partners and is curious about his own flavor. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 07:10:14 04/19/10 Mon
            • I know I've read places where it syas to m ake your ejaculate taste better to drink pineapple juice. And I think "OMG". Who thinks about THAT?? (NT) -- Deena, 08:38:11 04/19/10 Mon
              • ROFL, I've never heard that before. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 05:14:47 04/20/10 Tue
  
  

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• QOTD for Friday, April 16, 2010 -- kgp, 05:49:02 04/16/10 Fri [15]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  "What is it the Bible says?" Carruthers said quietly. "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be satisfied? I hunger, John," he whispered. "And you thirst. You won't fail me." The fingers of Charlie's secret moved on his skin, a plea, a caress."
  

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  • LJ, for his time, is incredibly just, and holds himself to the same standards as others. He cannot and will not let something like this lie. I wonder about the wording of this though, was Carruthers more than a 'friend' to John? If so, I missed it. (NT) -- jayn, 06:32:04 04/16/10 Fri
    • He was - there was a whole section about him after Hal gave John the summons. He has a deformed right hand with almost and extra half hand of which John has fond and intimate memories. (NT) -- kgp, 07:37:01 04/16/10 Fri
      • Yeah, I didn't know what to think about that memory of the hand. It was definitely strange, to say the least. (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 09:11:27 04/16/10 Fri
      • Oh yes, I remember now, the hand. I am not loaning out my books anymore. (NT) -- jayn, 11:03:53 04/16/10 Fri
      • John was glad Dr Hunter wouldn't be able to include it in his collection after Carruthers died. I'm impressed that John was so accepting of the deformity - many of that time (and this, unfortunately) would not. (NT) -- kgp, 12:05:45 04/16/10 Fri
        • Perhaps Dr Fentiman could have added it to his collection? *G* (NT) -- jayn, 14:35:06 04/16/10 Fri
  • This is an oops! the only translation of the Bible that uses JUSTICE was written in 2007! Not something someone in 1700's would have. It is really better translated (from Greek) as righteousness - as in being right with God. (NT) -- Kel, 14:18:54 04/17/10 Sat
    • That may be, but "justice" was the way Catholics were teaching that particular Beatitude when I was in school (mid-sixties). No doubt the nuns were wrong; maybe they were the same ones who taught Carruthers (we kids were sure some of them had been around for at least 200 years). I'm being facetious, but you get my point. (NT) -- Panofka, 07:44:21 04/18/10 Sun
    • The 2 Catholic Bibles that I consult: The New American Bible (1994-1995) uses "righteousness" and the more scholarly, The New Jerusalem Bible (1985) uses "uprightness". Without further research, methinks Kel may be correct. (NT) -- Deena, 17:04:24 04/18/10 Sun
      • Right, but my point is that it's what you learn (at whatever point, and in whatever form, and in whatever words the lesson resonates) that turns out to be what you "live," no matter what a "correct" interpretation of a text is supposed to be when you have the page in front of you. Does that make sense? (NT) -- Panofka, 19:09:00 04/18/10 Sun
        • Right. They mean much the same thing and justice is a more modern concept. It's just that Kel was pointing out that she believes that DG made an error in using "justice" back in a quote from the 1700's. (NT) -- Deena, 19:53:32 04/18/10 Sun
          • Yep, it's just that a Bible from the 1700's would say righteousness, not justice. And, since the character is in 1700's making the quotation, it would not be justice. Someone reading could certainly "interpret" the meaning in an incorrect theological manner, but they couldn't interpret a word the Bibles printed of that time didn't say. Similar to the idea that LJG wouldn't say "United States" (at this time, unless he was referring to something Claire told him) because they weren't yet. (NT) -- Kel, 22:18:36 04/18/10 Sun
            • Google "Douay Rheims Challoner." Inside>>>>> -- Panofka, 09:39:39 04/19/10 Mon
              • Could he have a Challoner Bible (finished 1752, plus printing & distribution issues)-I suppose. Could he have the Douay-Rheims, which didn't get to England? I suppose-it is FICTION after all. -- Kel, 17:31:56 04/19/10 Mon
  
  

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• QOTD for Wednesday, April 15, 2010 -- kgp, 05:28:12 04/15/10 Thu [12]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  
  "He awoke abruptly, face-to-face with an Indian. His reflexive flurry of movement was met with a low chuckle and a slight withdrawal, rather that a knife across the throat, though, and he broke through the fog of sleep in time to avoid doing serious damage to the scout Manoke.
  
  "What?" he muttered, and rubbed the hell of his hand across his eyes. "What is it?" And why the devil are you lying in my bed?
  
  In answer to this, the Indian put a hand behind his head, drew him close, and kissed him. The man's tongue ran lightly across his lower lip, darted like a lizard's into his mouth, and then was gone.
  
  So was the Indian."
  

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  Replies:

  • Manoke is an enigmatic character. I hope we get more of his story in the next book - how he met up with LJG again and came to be his cook in VA. (NT) -- Stargove, 07:05:39 04/15/10 Thu
  • Not entirely sure I bought ths scene. What would Manoke have done if LJ hadn't been 'that way', if he'd misinterpreted? Or if LJ had just shot him as an intruder? The invitation to fishing made sense but this was a little too much, too soon. Or something like that. Still, I liked seeing LJ's confusion 'was it a dream?' - kind of makes him human. I do like LJ, wish he wasn't 'that way. (NT) -- jayn, 09:29:09 04/15/10 Thu
    • I think it was just a dream - I don't think Manoke ws actually there. That's how I read it, anyway. (NT) -- kgp, 12:08:14 04/15/10 Thu
      • I know LJ thought it was a dream at first but I thought he decided later it was real? Maybe I misremember, I don't have the book (geez, already loaned out) to refer to it. As a dream it works. (NT) -- jayn, 12:25:21 04/15/10 Thu
        • Yeah, mine's loaned out already, too. (NT) -- Ellen P., 15:25:16 04/15/10 Thu
  • I read the scene as "reality". (NT) -- Deena, 13:51:48 04/15/10 Thu
    • John goes immediately back to sleep - it was a dream. He's only been asleep for about a half hour due to the attack the night before. (NT) -- kgp, 17:59:07 04/15/10 Thu
      • QOTD for Friday, Apeil 16, 2010. -- kgp, 18:05:10 04/15/10 Thu
        • kripes - did it again. brain, don't fail me now! (NT) -- kgp, 05:49:38 04/16/10 Fri
      • It seems that it wasn't a dream. Diana explained a bit about Manoke's behavior in the Custom thread on compuserveHERE (NT) -- Lady Oliver, 09:07:21 04/16/10 Fri
        • Well there you go then. I had no idea homosexuality was accepted among Indians - never really thought about it, though. And the business about Manoke touching LJ's hair, yes I can see Manoke getting a 'hint' from LJ's reaction. (NT) -- jayn, 11:07:07 04/16/10 Fri
  
  

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• QOTD for Wednesday, April 14, 2010 -- kgp, 19:18:55 04/13/10 Tue [8]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  "I've brought your breeches, me lord," Tom said, voice trembling. "Thought you might need 'em, if there was fighting."
  
  "Very thoughtful of you, Tom," he assured his valet, fighting an urge to laugh. He stepped into his breeches and pulled them up. Tucking in his shirt. "What's been happening in the camp, do you know?"
  
  He could hear Tom swallow hard.
  
  "Indians, me lord," Tom said. "They came screaming through the tents, set one or two afire. They killed one man I saw, and . . . and scalped him." His voice was thick, as though he might be about to vomit. "It was nasty."
  
  "I daresay."
  

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  Replies:

  • It's always good to have your pants on when you fight. One of DG's greatest skills is her ability to drop an absolutely hilarious line into a serious scene and have it believable. (NT) -- jayn, 05:04:21 04/14/10 Wed
  • I admire LJG for employing Tom as a valet, instead of a more conventional servant. It tells me that he can think for himself, outside of society's norms. (NT) -- Stargove, 17:51:30 04/14/10 Wed
  • I liked Tom a lot. I wanted him to be in America with John - I hope we find out what's happened to him. (NT) -- kgp, 04:51:57 04/15/10 Thu
    • QOTD for Wednesday, April 15, 2010 -- kgp, 04:58:04 04/15/10 Thu
      • Boy - Am I off stride again or what?? sheesh!!! QOTD reposted. Next cup of tea begun. (NT) -- kgp, 05:29:30 04/15/10 Thu
    • I liked Tom from the moment we learned he lied to get close to LJ in order to find out about his brother - he sure picked up how to valet, if not just the usual way, quickly. I imagine, don't know, that we'll learn that in The Scottish Prisoner. I hope Tom has found someone nice and was able to marry, LJ would have done something for him as he did for Bobby Higgins. (NT) -- jayn, 04:58:52 04/15/10 Thu
      • He knew how to shave a man - I think LJ recognized intelligence and quick thinking. (NT) -- kgp, 05:31:05 04/15/10 Thu
  
  

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• QOTD for Tuesday, April 13, 2010 -- kgp, 19:07:33 04/12/10 Mon [4]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  "No, no," Grey said hastily. "I was only thinking of Dr. Hunter. He, um, has a certain reputation . . . and Nicholls did go off with him. After the duel."
  
  "A reputation as what, for God's sake?" Hal demanded impatiently.
  
  "As a body-snatcher," Grey blurted.
  
  There was a sudden silence, awareness dawning in Hal's face. He's gone pale.
  
  "You don’t think - no! How could he?"
  
  "A . . . um . . . hundredweight or so of stones being substituted just prior to the coffin's being nailed shut is the usual method - or so I've heard," Grey said, as well as he could with Dottie's fist being poked up his nose."
  

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  • I LOL at all the scenes where adults are trying to have a serious conversation and the childern just won't let them. Having a baby's fist up one's nose does make it a trifle hard to concentrate on body-snatchers. (NT) -- jayn, 04:56:35 04/13/10 Tue
    • I like the visual of these military men, sure of themselves and their abilities, taking turns holding Dottie - who I'm sure is as frilled as she is active. That John knows about body-snatching methods and Hal doesn't is funny also. They're close but don't tell each other absolutely everything. (NT) -- kgp, 07:28:40 04/13/10 Tue
      • There is something very touching and funny about strong he-man types handling (or being handled) by babies. 'And a little child shall lead them' (NT) -- jayn, 12:08:13 04/13/10 Tue
  
  

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• QOTD for Monday, April 12, 2010 -- kgp, 17:57:20 04/11/10 Sun [3]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  "Ah, that. I didn't mean to show it to you," Hal said, leaning carefully to hand it over without dropping Dottie. "But under the circumstances . . . "
  
  He waited, noncommittal, as Grey opened the letter and read it. It was a request - or an order, depending how you looked at it - for the attendance of Major Lord John Grey at the court-martial of one Captain Charles Carruthers, to serve as witness of character for the same. In . . .
  
  "In Canada?" John's exclamation startled Dottie, who crumpled up her face and threatened to cry.
  
  "Hush, sweetheart," Hal jiggled faster, hastily patting her back. "It's all right; only Uncle John being an ass."
  

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  Replies:

  • I love scenes between the brothers Grey. (NT) -- kgp, 05:40:37 04/12/10 Mon
  • Someone should make a list of how many times Hal has called John an 'ass' - I am thinking many many times, *G*. Hal is a verra handy guy to have around - he knows everything and everyone. Wonder how he'll play out as we go along. I think he'll be involved with the William thing - I think W will hightail it back to England for a bit to lick his wounds (we'll see) (NT) -- jayn, 07:59:26 04/12/10 Mon
  
  

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• QOTD for Sunday, April 11, 2010 -- kgp, 05:08:25 04/11/10 Sun [5]
  The following quote is taken from The Custom of the Army by Diana Gabaldon, Copyright (c) 2010 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  
  
  "Metal," Hunter repeated. "Arthur Longstreet described to me the operation in which he removed thirty-seven pieces of metal from your chest - most impressive. If any bits remain, though, I must advise you against trying the eel. Metal conducts electricity, you see, and the chance of burns - "
  
  Nicholls made his way though the throng as well, and gave an unpleasant laugh, hearing this.
  
  "A good excuse, Major," he said, a noticeable jeer in his voice.
  
  He was very drunk indeed, Grey thought. Still -
  
  "No, I haven't," he said abruptly.
  

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  • LJ and Jamie both - all you have to do us suggest they are afraid and they'll do anything... jeesh. It's a wonder civilization survived these experimenters. (NT) -- jayn, 06:37:08 04/11/10 Sun
    • ps, thanks for taking this on K, should be fun. (NT) -- jayn, 06:37:55 04/11/10 Sun
    • That's true of most men, isn't it? More hormones than brains half the time... :-) (NT) -- Stargove, 09:26:03 04/11/10 Sun
      • LOL (NT) -- jayn, 13:20:59 04/11/10 Sun
  
  

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• This might be really obvious but it just occured to me we have a recurring 'theme' of William being led through the wilderness by cousins he doesn't know he has. First Ian in the Great Dismal, now John Cinnamon through Canada. All he needs to do now is go to Scotland and be given directions by WBM. *G* -- jayn, 16:15:34 04/04/10 Sun [7]
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  • Interesting thought - It goes along with "I know your Father". John Cinnamon would be a stretch as a cousin, though. He'd be Olivia's step-son (if she ever found out about it) and Cromwell's half-brother. William is Olivia's sort of first cousin once removed only because of Lord John who is actually an Uncle by marriage. It might be he'd run into Michael Murray at some point on a trip to France in the next ten years. (NT) -- kgp, 05:24:46 04/05/10 Mon
    • John couldn't have adopted him - ocould he? Wouldn't that mess up the inheritence of title etc? (NT) -- kgp, 05:25:55 04/05/10 Mon
      • LJ said he would "stand as step-father" (Voy). I don't know if this mean formal adoption or not. Either way though, the minute the old Earl died wouldn't William become Earl - only having to wait until he comes of age to control the money, estate etc, but I think the title is his immediately. Therefore LJ wouldn't be adopting William, as such, he would be adopting Earl of Ellesmere. Let's say LJ married Geneva after William came of age (I know he married Olivia but for the sake of argument) - William would still be Earl, just as Hal remained Duke of Pardloe after Benedicta marries Percy's father. Does that make sense? At any rate you're right he is only step-cousins but still, LJ refers to Percy as his 'brother' when intoducing him and look how convoluted that is (his step-father's step-son...) (NT) -- jayn, 07:59:02 04/05/10 Mon
  • Ok, I give up...I cannot recall who WBM is, someone please clue me in. Thanks. (NT) -- JanR, 07:43:38 04/09/10 Fri
    • William Buckleigh MacKenzie, also known as Buck. Duncan & Geillis' son, Roger's many-great grandfather. (NT) -- jayn, 08:27:21 04/09/10 Fri
      • Thanks Jayn, it was driving me crazy that I couldn't recall anyone by those initials. (NT) -- JanR, 10:08:00 04/10/10 Sat
  
  

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• SO what does anyone think of John buying Malcolm's son, dropping him off at the Abbey and naming him John Cinnamon? I thought it was John doing the best he could for the boy under the circumstances and that naming him John was his nod to his own mortality and wanting a namesake. -- kgp, 09:32:51 03/29/10 Mon [11]
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  • I am not sure what to think of it. Did you realize that he was William's guide in Quebec, only we didn't know him yet (Karen Henry pointed that out). Somehow it seems like LJ didn't do enough for him, yet I am not sure what more he could have done. Obviously he couldn't have taken the boy home (echoes of Jamie and Fergus maybe?) but dumping him on what was surely an overworked, underfunded orphanage doesn't seem right either. Was 5 pounds per year a goodly sum to send for him? LJ could have gone higher without noticing it at all. Maybe what I wanted him to do was arrange for someone, a local family perhaps, to take the boy in and raise him as their own. I think there must be more to John Cinnamon but I guess we'll have to wait and see (where have we heard that before?) (NT) -- jayn, 14:03:43 03/29/10 Mon
    • John also left a large purse - the 5 pounds a year was extra in return for a lock of his hair. No - I did not see that connection! I'll have to go back and reread that part. I was wondering where he'd show up again - duh! (NT) -- kgp, 16:57:53 03/29/10 Mon
      • William mentions him in the letter he writes LJ from the convent. (NT) -- jayn, 17:26:42 03/29/10 Mon
        • Thank you - I'll look that up when I get the chance. What a start that must have given John!! (NT) -- kgp, 18:03:39 03/29/10 Mon
  • I agree with you, kgp. This reminded me of Carruthers' observation about Hal & LJG and their drive to keep peace and order. Providing for the baby's welfare by delivering him to the French mission was LJG's way of restoring some measure of order after he'd been abandoned by his father and left motherless as well. I think he did all he could do without bringing too much attention to the baby and the circumstances of his birth. I agree with you on the reason behind choosing John Cinnamon's name, too. Carruthers' words had clearly stuck with him. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 20:50:03 03/29/10 Mon
    • I wonder if John has told Malcolm what has become of his Canadian son. (NT) -- kgp, 13:06:02 03/30/10 Tue
      • I have a feeling that LJG would keep all of this quiet for Olivia's sake. Though I suspect that if Malcolm gives him a reason, he'd be willing to use, or share, that information as the case may be. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 14:18:46 03/30/10 Tue
  • I scratched my head over the 5 pounds, missed entirely the purse business so I re-read that part. LJ committed to sending 5 lbs yearly for life (I assume he meant until 18 or something). He asked the priest to write every year with John's progress, and the send the lock of hair, I think as proof that John is still alive. So does LJ know John is working as a guide? It's odd LJ didn't think about John (well not to us at any rate, but he can keep a secret) when William went to Canada - as in 'wonder if they'll meet?' Canada, expecially the British part, was much smaller then and they were in the same area. (NT) -- jayn, 17:42:43 03/30/10 Tue
    • I don't think LJ knew William was heading for Canada before he started off - he may have gotten a letter from WIlliam stating the intent to go after the fact. It doesn't seem LJ had any direct contact with John Cinnamon - maybe just a letter from the monks stating he had reached his majority and was now making his own way in the world. That would seem rather barren to me - even just a yearly note stating how the boy was fairing but then nothing else once he's left the monastery. (NT) -- kgp, 05:47:05 03/31/10 Wed
      • We don't get anything elsewhere in the books but LJ did ask the priest to send him information LJ tells the priest "I will send an additional five pound each year, if you will advise me once a year of his continued welfare...Send me a lock of hair. Every year". We never hear anything but I think it's safe to assume this happened. (NT) -- jayn, 06:25:04 03/31/10 Wed
  
  

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• Just curious -- Judie, 19:38:13 03/26/10 Fri [10]
  .
  .
  There's so little activity on this board it makes one wonder how many people have actually read this short story yet.
  
  Who has? Who hasn't? Who intends to in the next couple of weeks?
  
  :)
  

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  Replies:

  • I've read the entire book. (NT) -- jayn, 06:04:33 03/27/10 Sat
    • How were the other stories in the book? Are they worth reading? (NT) -- Ellen P., 06:37:53 04/01/10 Thu
  • Read it and enjoyed the short visit with LJG. :-) But I think this happened with "LJG & the Succubus", too, Judie. Not a whole lot of discussion of that story shortly after it was released as part of the Legends II anthology. More discussion when it was part of the LJG & the Hand of Devils trilogy of novellas. Just a more appealing format for readers already familar with and interested in DG's stories. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 06:24:41 03/27/10 Sat
  • Can't really justify buying a whole book for one story. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 07:35:33 03/27/10 Sat
  • I hate it when the stories are embedded in a huge anthology with writers that I'm not interested in. I'm on a second read and then I have to return the book to the library. From all the references to this battle made in Bones, I expected it to be more than a 15 minute battle where it seems that John was an insignificant player and walked about in a bit of a daze. I found that somewhat disappointing. In general I find short stories and novellas leave me begging for more; I love her big tomes. JanR (NT) -- JanR, 10:05:31 03/27/10 Sat
  • Just read it last night. I think I'll reread it to look for the nuances I missed the first time, then post my impressions. (NT) -- Stargove, 07:33:29 03/28/10 Sun
    • It took two reads, the second more slowly, for me to parse it all out. There's an awful lot in a very short novella. (NT) -- kgp, 13:04:44 03/30/10 Tue
  • I haven't been able to get it from my library yet, but when I do I'll be interested in reading the discussions here. Hopefully by the end of the month I'll have it in hand. (NT) -- MonicaW, 09:20:28 03/28/10 Sun
  • Not going to buy an expensive hard cover book to read just one story that may or may not interest me. (NT) -- Deena, 07:29:07 03/29/10 Mon
  
  

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• The Kindle edition of WARRIORS is back! -- Karen Henry, 06:09:39 03/26/10 Fri [4]
  For those of you who've been looking for WARRIORS on Kindle, try this link:
  
  http://www.amazon.com/Warriors-ebook/dp/B003BQZ870/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1269595197&sr=1-6
  
  Hope this helps.
  
  Karen
  

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  Replies:

  • Haven't made the jump to reading ebooks yet, but thanks, Karen! Great info for those who've been playing link hide & seek with Amazon. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 06:28:22 03/27/10 Sat
  • Sony has had it offered since March 15th for their e-Reader. The last time I looked, Sony had reduced the price, too. (NT) -- Liza, 06:57:59 03/27/10 Sat
  • I tried for a few hours on Thursday to buy U is for Undertow from Amazon - on Kindle for Mac. :| It just never worked, the download went SOMEWHERE but I could not find it, it wouldn't sync Amazon with my computer - I finally gave up and wrote to Amazon and asked for a refund. Highly annoying! One of these days I'll try again. (NT) -- Judie, 09:44:56 03/27/10 Sat
  
  

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• Shall we have QOTD over here? I'm on for next week for the BB - I don't mind doing this one at the same time. -- kgp, 10:22:29 03/24/10 Wed [6]
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  • Ok by me! I'll talk about anything! *G* (NT) -- jayn, 11:02:09 03/24/10 Wed
  • Sounds good! (NT) -- DawnW., 08:25:41 03/25/10 Thu
  • Please hang on until I get an ok from Diana. Thanks. (NT) -- Judie, 13:02:00 03/25/10 Thu
    • Of course! (NT) -- kgp, 06:34:33 03/26/10 Fri
    • Thanks Judie! (NT) -- Lady Jay, 06:29:22 03/27/10 Sat
  
  

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• I finished Custom and I enjoyed it. My favorite things were finding out how bold Manoke is and how much John enjoys him, seeing John get the paperweight and name the baby after himself. I love that John is such a good man: a lover, a fighter and consummate protector. Best of all he's open to all kinds of new experiences. -- DawnW., 15:41:57 03/20/10 Sat [11]
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  • I was amused that the introduction described him as "Swashbuckling" - not the first adjective that comes to my mind thinking of John but I guess it fits - sort of. I liked it as well, going to reread it as John's stories are always complex. I wish Diana hadn't had spacial constraints with this story - it read like an abridgement and there's more I want to know. I was very disappointed with Malcolm Stubbs though I understand, sort of. He's been away for nearly two years and had married Olivia mere months before deployment. They really had no courtship and barely time to know one another before he left. Also amused at John geting into difficulties over women. (NT) -- kgp, 13:00:56 03/21/10 Sun
    • I smiled at the 'swashbuckling' too. There are lots of words I'd use to describe LJ but this isn't one *G*. (NT) -- jayn, 14:29:44 03/21/10 Sun
    • A surprising amount of the time, the word I would use to describe Lord John would be "resigned", but that doesn't make good blurbs. (NT) -- Susannah, 04:32:08 03/22/10 Mon
      • He's certainly no coward - it's an interesting comparison though - Jamie always seems ready for rough action, even Claire described him as fierce in aspect (I think). John is so polished and in control that for him to 'break character' and engage in fisticuffs at a party or shed his coat and get his hands dirty or charge a citadel is almost surprising. (NT) -- kgp, 05:46:41 03/22/10 Mon
        • John is polished with elegant manners but he is a soldier and very comfortable with violence. This story really reinforces John as a protector literally from beginning to end. I am always enjoy the sensuality of John's life. He enjoys the natural world around him and appreciates beauty where ever he finds it. I was glad he got to enjoy two weeks in the wild with Manoke. No manners necessary! (NT) -- DawnW., 09:52:04 03/22/10 Mon
          • I am in the middle of reading Custom, and just finished up the bit where Joh has returned from his 2 weeks hunting, etc., with Manoke. I know it's a short story but I sure wish we could have had more time with them. I think it would be fun to see a side of John that tries to wear a breech clout and isn't perfectly groomed...er, the 'wild side' of him, so to speak. (NT) -- Tess, 08:44:19 03/25/10 Thu
        • What you said about 'polished'. I think that's why I felt like attacking Stubbs was out of character. When I really think about it (and several examples later) I am ready to agree that LJ is quite ready to be violent is necessary, so much of what we see of him is suave and cool it takes me by surprise that he can be a fighter. (NT) -- jayn, 10:56:00 03/22/10 Mon
          • He's quite fond of Olivia and after her initial marriage plans fell through so spectacularly I think he is even more concerned for her happiness. To find Stubbs maintaining such an attachment when Olivia has been steadfast and true, plus so devoted to Stubb's son, would surely enrage a man such as John, His willingness to break Nicholl's nose based on leering comments to the Lady shows he takes his responsibility toward women's honor seriously. (NT) -- kgp, 06:10:16 03/23/10 Tue
  • There is an entry for Lord John Grey in Wikipedia. :) (NT) -- JanR, 14:35:54 03/21/10 Sun
    • Fun! (NT) -- kgp, 05:42:46 03/22/10 Mon
  
  

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• I've a question that isn't really about Custom but relates to it. DD learned about the Plains of Abraham in history and came home to tell me about Simon Fraser, evidently he was even more important than his appearance here, I assume (in real life) he did more later. Is this the same Simon Fraser as the univeristy? Or who was that man? Anyone of you BC folk know this one maybe? Not a big deal, only curious. -- jayn, 07:31:32 03/18/10 Thu [6]
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  • Simon Fraser -- Ursula, 14:45:12 03/18/10 Thu
    • Interesting. Actually I was thinking it was the same man but when you said this I realized I wasn't really thinking....I knew it wasn't. (NT) -- jayn, 04:26:31 03/19/10 Fri
  • Ursula We were both wrong - or something. Diana has said on the compuserve board that the Simon Fraser from Custom is the same one who died in Echo. Maybe there were 2 Simons at Plains? It doesn't really matter I suppose, I can hardly imgaine that DG would be that lax about research but maybe this is a detail that she didn't consider overly important, I'm not really sure but there you go. (NT) -- jayn, 18:10:06 03/20/10 Sat
    • Simon Fraser Jr. -- Lynnie, 07:31:04 03/22/10 Mon
      • McTavish? Wasn't that Jamie's fake last name when Claire first met him? I think I googled something regarding this Simon Fraser, and it said that he was a distant relative to the Frasers' of Lovat, thus the distinction of Simon Fraser of Balnain...I have a migraine and my brain is foggy, can't remember accurately. (NT) -- Ayira from Panama, 11:10:10 04/09/10 Fri
  
  

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• Mildly disapointed. -- jayn, 04:47:16 03/16/10 Tue [22]
  I have gone inside because it's long and spoiler-filled.
  

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  • not seeing anything (NT) -- sharon fisher, 04:57:07 03/16/10 Tue
    • Yikes, you were too quick. *G* (NT) -- jayn, 05:11:33 03/16/10 Tue
  • I hope it is appropirate to post something negative, I am a DG fan and I did enjoy the story but I was a little disapointed, here's why.>>> -- jayn (), 05:10:58 03/16/10 Tue
    • I picked up my copy of Warriors today and have only managed to get about 10 pages into DG's story so far. Things have moved quickly and have a disjointed quality, but I think that's intentional as LJG is trying to sort out what happened the previous evening. I've enjoyed the descriptions and detail so far--Hal, LJG & Dottie have been great fun to picture together. I don't know how complex or how involved the story will get. I can't imagine that even DG (*G*) can stuff too much info into less than 60 pages. Is it maybe the shorter format that threw you? It's a different read from the longer novels for sure, but I read quite a few anthologies and though there's a bit of a different feel to them, I enjoy shorter works. They're usually more of a quick glimpse rather than a long look, or sometimes a chance to zero in a bit--more satisfying than excerpts, but less filling than novels. I'll try to finish up my read tonight and see what I think then. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 21:27:23 03/16/10 Tue
    • wish you hadn't deleted it. I hate the thought that we can only say nice things about the books. (NT) -- sharon fisher, 06:42:22 03/17/10 Wed
      • No it was very negative and opinionated, I did commit to saying I was disapointed though. I liked the story, I suppose I was simply let down by my own self-built hype - I wanted more! (NT) -- jayn, 07:08:06 03/17/10 Wed
        • Have you read 'LJ & The Hand of the Devils,' Jayn? It's a compilation of 3 short stories. I didn't read it, but downloaded the audio version. I remember the distinct feeling at the end of all but one of them of, "Wait, no...it's over?" (grin) I wanted more of the story. I suppose it is just the short story genre that is sometimes hard to adjust to, particularly if one is so find of large books. I haven't read Custom yet, as it hasn't been available on Kindle any of the times I have checked. (NT) -- Tess, 08:13:32 03/17/10 Wed
          • Yes, I've read all the books and stories. Without actualy counting words I will say that Custom is far shorter than anything else, it only took about an hour to read the whole thing, if that. (NT) -- jayn, 08:56:40 03/17/10 Wed
            • It's at least as long as "Succubus" -- just under 60 pages, but more words per page than HAND OF DEVILS, so it's hard to tell which is longer. It's certainly much longer than "Hellfire". (NT) -- Karen Henry, 09:31:55 03/17/10 Wed
              • I think it was Hellfire that had me going..."NO wait! It can't be over..." Wasn't that the one where Quarry walks in on John & George Everett's telling conversation? I wanted to see more of that, and whether Harry heard any of what was said. Of course in The Private Matter there's a reference to that. John didn't know how much if anything Harry heard, or if he did, what he thought of it. (NT) -- Tess, 10:06:53 03/17/10 Wed
                • Yes, that was Hellfire. It was just before Harry killed George who was going to kill LJ. LJ never knew how much Harry heard or understood but I (IMO only) think he knows exactly. Maybe custome just seems shorter to me because Hand of Devils was only my 2nd book, I didn't know the characters or what was to come, and I hadn't fallen so completely into that world. (NT) -- jayn, 11:17:24 03/17/10 Wed
  • Well, what this has fired me up to do is re-read the LJ books. :) (NT) -- Judie, 22:57:11 03/17/10 Wed
    • Went to Chapters today with the intention of buying the book but it was $33 and I just couldn't pay that for one story. I doubt I'll ever read the others. So I guess I'll have to wait for audible.com or something. :) Meantime, re-reading the LJG books. :) (NT) -- Judie, 19:49:40 03/18/10 Thu
      • That's too bad. Maybe you could get it from the library or something? (NT) -- Karen Henry, 04:04:09 03/19/10 Fri
      • Judie, that's kind of how I felt but I bought it anyway and, to be honest, I'm a little bit surprised how much I have enjoyed the other stories. I've read almost the whole book, I can't say I truly like all of them but there has only been one that I didn't finish. They are all well written and interesting at the very least. All-in-all I think the book is worth buying. (NT) -- jayn, 06:00:56 03/19/10 Fri
        • I'm not a sci-fi person so I'll pass - unless I see it in the discount pile in a few months *G*. And I'll try the library in the meantime. If it comes out in audio format I'll get it then. :) (NT) -- Judie, 10:32:39 03/19/10 Fri
          • Gonna be a loooooong wait for an audio version, unfortunately. We might not get "Custom" in audio format until there's another LJ-only anthology, and who knows when that might happen, if ever? (NT) -- Karen Henry, 10:38:31 03/19/10 Fri
            • It's on order at the library, I'm 1 of 1 - ROFL! So hopefully it'll be here one of these days. :) (NT) -- Judie, 14:21:48 03/19/10 Fri
              • Woo hoo! You're first in line, eh? Way to go! *G* I can't find that my library even has it ordered. Good thing we enjoy many of these authors over here--made the purchase worth it. I did enjoy "Custom" very much, though I probably couldn't say that I enjoyed it enough to justify paying full price for the whole book if that was all I was going to read out of it. Hope your library gets it in soon. :-) (NT) -- Lady Jay, 16:15:48 03/19/10 Fri
            • I sure wish she could squeeze The Custom of the Army in as a bonus at the end of The Scottish Prisoner...what's 60 more pages? (NT) -- Tess, 15:41:52 03/19/10 Fri
              • Now THERE is a thought. *G* I wonder if there would be copyright issues due to it being in one book at the moment, yada yada yada - like the abridged books in audio format and all that stuff that's going on. But it would be a thought....... :) (NT) -- Judie, 18:31:15 03/19/10 Fri
  
  

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• Open for Discussion! -- the management, 11:48:20 03/13/10 Sat [9]
  

  
  This board is now open for discussion of the new LJG novella, "The Custom of the Army", which can be found in the Warriors anthology.
  
  Posts from the previous discussions of Lord John and the Brotherhood of the Blade can be found "downstream" from this post as well as in the Archives. To access the archived pages, click on one of the page links at the upper right of this page.
  
  That's it! Discuss and have fun!
  

  
  

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  • Thanks, mysterious management type - ROFL!!!!!!!!!!! Let the discussions begin! (NT) -- Judie, 13:26:19 03/13/10 Sat
  • Is this book available for purchase? Where? (NT) -- Mandee, 13:37:33 03/13/10 Sat
    • The official release date is March 16. Judie is just making sure that we have a place to talk once we have the story in our hot little hands! *G* (NT) -- Lady Jay, 14:10:55 03/13/10 Sat
      • And thanks to Jay for helping by getting the board ready. The book is available March 16th online at Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and Chapters for starters. I assume it will be in the actual bookstores on that day as well. (NT) -- Judie, 14:23:47 03/13/10 Sat
        • I didn't preorder, so it'd better be in bookstores that day! I'm looking forward to reading quite a few of the stories in this book, but DG's will probably be the first. (NT) -- Lady Jay, 07:47:01 03/14/10 Sun
  • Amazon shipped me the book (and a few more) yesterday, expected to arrive Tues. My mail usually arrives noonish so if I follow my DG pattern I'll be done by dinner (overnight for the 'real'books *G*). See ya Wed! (NT) -- jayn (), 18:28:43 03/13/10 Sat
    • Oh, and thanks to you management type folks. You guys work so tirelessly so the rest of us can play. Mucho appreciato! (NT) -- jayn, 18:30:34 03/13/10 Sat
  • Woohoo I have my book. it came a day early (I will never say anything bad about Canada Post again....until next time my mail is missing). I sense a late night! (NT) -- jayn, 14:03:50 03/15/10 Mon
  
  

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• JUST got this book today...I waited so long!!! I'm gonna read it as fast as possible so I can join in, I have missed all the great disscussions so far, have avoided this board like the a disease!!! NO MORE....give me a week, and I'll be here! .....I have hight hopes, tell me that's reasonable!?!?!?! -- stillcleaning, 23:36:23 04/15/08 Tue [2]
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  • Oh, that is such a bummer. This board seems to be dead. It kills me cuz we had some really AMAZING discussions here, but folks quit coming when the books were made available for discussion on the book board. You might want to check out the achieves..they are certainly worth seeing. I have a pathetic attachment to the board, so I keep coming back hoping someone will want to talk here..so even if it is just you and me..I'm willing if you are. Do the achieves first though..so many smart women participated in those discussions, I can't hold a candle to them. (NT) -- Jane, 06:29:35 04/16/08 Wed
  
  

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• QOTD for Saturday March 22, 2008 -- Jane, 16:17:32 03/21/08 Fri [11]
  The following quote is taken from Lord John and the Hand of Devils Lord John and the Succubus Chapter 4 “The Gun Crew” Copyright (c) 2007 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  “Grey shook him harder, then released him, and under the guise of slapping dead leaves from his uniform, leaned closer. “If you act like this, they will know,” he said, speaking in a rapid whisper, “For God’s sake, laugh!” Samson, experienced enough to know what to do in such circumstances, was doing it-pushing at joking comrades, replying to crude jests with cruder ones. The young boy glanced at him, a flicker of awareness coming back into his face. Grey let him go, and turned back to the group, saying loudly. “If I was going to bugger someone, I would wait for good weather. A man must be desperate to swive anything in such rain and thunder!”
  

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  • John did take a risk here, if he'd been overheard giving such advice, the other men might have started speculating about him. Knowing that and seeing John do it anyhow, you can't help but admire him. I wish John had someone he could have talked to when he was raped at the age of 16, shortly after Hector's death. I'd be willing to bet he could see his younger self in Franz. This is the last of the QOTD's. Thanks to everyone who stopped by to take a look. See you on the other boards! (NT) -- Jane, 16:21:25 03/21/08 Fri
    • Thanks for your dedication! (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 21:47:45 03/21/08 Fri
  • You've done such a beautiful job here, Jane! Thank you so much. This quote is an interesting place to end; it suggests both John's compassion and leadership, as well as his isolation and loneliness -- the knowledge that he, like this boy, is forced to compromise a part of himself by taking lovers in secret, publicly denouncing and joking about buggery, and the don't ask/don't tell line he walks with Hal and other close family/friends. But it is entirely appropriate -- I think his alone-ness is one of the things that most draws me to this character, and even though he is focused on saving someone else's reputation here, it is his own fear and isolation that I sense in this passage. (NT) -- pamelalass, 06:01:09 03/22/08 Sat
    • I also was thinking on how much John identified with this boy and wished to smooth the road ahead of him as much as possible, having traveled it himself. What an awful life it must have been for a gay person in that time, having to constantly pretend to be something you are not. I personally couldn't stand the isolation and loneliness. I guess that is why I am so desperate for John to connect to someone worthy of him. I thank everyone who ever contributed to this board. I hope we can look back into the achieves when we feel the need to reconnect with the power and passions of the discussions we've had here. It was a nice run for John fans! (NT) -- Jane, 07:10:05 03/22/08 Sat
  • Thanks, Jane for your generosity and tenacity in sharing Lord John with us. I have been lurking here daily. You've chosen great stuff! (NT) -- teddie, 05:10:25 03/24/08 Mon
    • So does this mean LJ just looked at the boy and deduced his persuasion? I reread this passage a couple of times to see if I'd missed a clue that Samson is homosexual, but I don't think there was a clue. (NT) -- Gayle, 10:52:34 03/27/08 Thu
      • Hi Gayle, John could tell by the boys over-reaction to the joke just what Franz and Samson had been doing, having been there himself. Samson, being older, knew just how to handle the crude comments but Franz being young and inexperienced did not. Did you notice how the "light went on" for Franz moments later and he caught on? Being gay at that time was a very dangerous thing, the experienced knew well how to hide it since it could be deadly. Mentors were thin on the ground, no internet or gay/lesbian clubs or newsletters, no counselors, sadly most people were ignorant. Poor kids like Franz were pretty much on their own. (NT) -- Jane, 16:35:17 03/27/08 Thu
        • Thank you. I'm going to go back and look at it again. I've just been fitting in LJ between my book club books, so wasn't at the forefront of these stories as I was with The Other Lot. I'm late to the party, and I thank you for your interpretation--I'm sorry I've missed so much discussion, but have been LOVING the archives! (NT) -- Gayle, 18:10:53 03/27/08 Thu
  • Thanks Jane! I've really enjoyed stopping in here for a quick peek. I just wish I had more time to spend with you and your wonderful quotes. :-( (NT) -- Melva T, 13:47:48 03/29/08 Sat
    • Wow Melva, thanks for stopping by! I'll continue to look at least once a day to see if any-thing's going on here on the LJG boards till they get shut down. I promised not to keep doing quotes to try keeping it alive. I guess it is time to move the discussions back on to the book board now that all the books have been released the required amount of time. See you there! (NT) -- Jane, 19:22:32 03/29/08 Sat
  
  

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• QOTD for Friday March 21, 2008 -- Jane, 18:31:12 03/20/08 Thu [4]
  The following quote is taken from Lord John and the Hand of Devils Lord John and the Succubus Chapter 4 “The Gun Crew” Copyright (c) 2007 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  “And here we thought you and Samson were just buggering each other under the bridge.”
  Blood surged up into the boy’s face with a suddenness that made his eyes bulge, and he launched himself at the older man, knocking him off his seat and rolling with him into the leaves in a ball of fists and elbows.
  Grey sprang to his feet and kicked them apart, seizing the boy by the scruff of the neck and jerking him up. He shook the boy slightly, to bring him to his senses, and said very quietly, “Laugh. It was a joke."
  

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  • Sorry I haven't been around recently. Unfortunately, I'm off again tomorrow morning. I remember this wise advice John gives the boy. LJ is able to size up this confrontation because of his own experience. I like that he doesn't hesitate to intercede. (NT) -- tlk2vicki, 20:17:11 03/20/08 Thu
    • Thanks Vicki, I think it was wonderful luck for Franz that John happened along when he did, BOTH times! Here to save him from possibly exposing his preferences and then later saving him from nearly certain death in the badger pit. It was obvious none of the men in his company thought Franz was worth the trouble to search for. A bonus for John too, Franz had information that saved not only Dundas but allowed him to alert John that the Austrians had joined the French Army saving perhaps the whole of the English and German forces there from just being rolled over, unprepared to meet them! (NT) -- Jane, 06:10:22 03/21/08 Fri
  • I wonder if that would have put John in danger to give such advice. Jane - Thank you for the quotes of John and the various bairns. I've enjoyed the sweet moments. (NT) -- kgp, 13:31:51 03/21/08 Fri
  
  

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• QOTD for Thursday March 20, 2008 -- Jane, 06:09:22 03/20/08 Thu [6]
  The following quote is taken from Lord John and the Hand of Devils
  Lord John and the Succubus Chapter 2 “ But What Exactly, does a Succubus Do?” Copyright (c) 2007 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  “At least the boy seemed to have lost some of his fear; he cuddled close, rubbing his head under Grey’s chin. There was a distinct smell about him; nothing unpleasant-rather like the smell of a month old litter of puppies, Grey thought, warmly animal.”
  

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  • After his last remembered smells of John's first meeting with Willie , Siggy’s fragrance must have seem fairly pleasant indeed (grin) This is the end of the Siggy quotes, tomorrow we'll start with the last child in John's books. I'm not sure where I'll go from there. Should I stop, or does anyone have an idea? (NT) -- Jane, 06:12:12 03/20/08 Thu
  • Much as it pains me to contemplate life without a daily dose of his Lordship, it does seem as if discussion has died down since the LJ books are no longer new. I will certainly be enjoying the Quotes as long as you have the gracious good will to post them, but we do seem to be a shrinking Sisterhood of The Brotherhood... *g* (NT) -- pamelalass, 17:01:36 03/20/08 Thu
    • Yes, I was thinking that too. I'd hate to think anyone was coming over here just out of pity cuz I can't let the board go (grin). So I'll post these last two quotes I've already typed up and then be done. Love the "Sisterhood of the Brotherhood" idea, that is what it felt like, but you'll all still be here. (NT) -- Jane, 18:26:10 03/20/08 Thu
      • Well, Sistahs, I still love reading everything here. But a combination of my own life being squirrelly right now and my having read the LJG books so ridiculously quickly -- couldn't put them down!-- means I have no deep insights at all -- which is why I appreciate yours. Maybe after a reread??? (NT) -- CatherineM., 21:01:46 03/20/08 Thu
        • Catherine, if you could find the CDs and do a "re-listen" I think you would enjoy them much more. I know what you mean about life being "squirrelly" and find the books on CD (or Ipod if you are lucky enough to own one and savvy enough to know how to do those downloads Lady Jane found so cheap for us) force you to slow down and really savor the story. The added bonus is you can still move on with at least the mindless but necessary parts of your life while listening. I find I can clean, cook, shop, exercise, and do chores like yard work and laundry and never miss a word. I don't feel nearly as resentful that I am often the only one in the household doing all that crap as long as I can do it with the books in my ears. (NT) -- Jane, 05:59:21 03/21/08 Fri
  
  

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• QOTD for Tuesday March 18, 2008 -- Jane, 21:28:28 03/17/08 Mon [5]
  The following quote is taken from Lord John and the Hand of Devils Lord John and the Succubus Chapter 2 “But What Exactly, does a Succubus Do?” Copyright (c) 2007 by Diana Gabaldon. All rights reserved
  
  “It’s very dark.” Said the boy, with a tremor in his voice.
  “Soldiers are not afraid of the dark,” he reassured the child, thinking of the graveyard.
  “I’m not afraid!” the little boy’s cheek was pressed against his neck.
  “Of course you are not. How are you called, young sir?” he asked in hopes of distracting the boy.
  “Siggy.”
  “Siggy.” He repeated, feeling his way along the wall with one hand. I am John, Johannes, in your tongue.”
  “I know, “ said the boy, surprising him. “The servant girls think you are good looking. Not so big as Landgrave Stephan, but prettier. Are you rich? The Landgrave is very rich.”
  

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  • Ah, John being compared to Stephan and perhaps finding himself somewhat wanting? Little Siggy diving into the heart of the matter..money...so sad for one so young. (NT) -- Jane, 21:38:43 03/17/08 Mon
  • Siggy has been listening to the maids with whom rich and handsome would count as quite important. And John is prettier. {g} (NT) -- kgp, 05:26:53 03/18/08 Tue
    • Yes, he's prettier, and it's not just the maids and Siggy who think so...! The Lord and the Landgrave are not immune to (each others'?) differently handsome faces... *g* (NT) -- pamelalass, 10:23:27 03/18/08 Tue
      • Just imagine being Princess Lousia and having so much self confidence that you think you can choose between these two amazing guys! (NT) -- Jane, 06:06:48 03/20/08 Thu
  
  

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