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Date Posted: 07:00:25 08/10/07 Fri
Author: Joan
Author Host/IP: ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net / 68.0.253.131
Subject: Paul's "Christianity vs Romanism" on Brenda's
Brenda's really is a haven for seething anti-Catholics. :-)
What do you think of Paul's comment, "Chrisianity vs Romanism"?
Joan
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Re: I have yet to figure out his motive.... -- Phil from AZ, 12:18:23 08/10/07 Fri [1] (71-223-15-110.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.15.110)
But it almost seems like Paul's trying to ignite a full-out fracas rather than defray one, as he pretends, doesnt it? By the inference of Christianity vs. Catholicism, he's indirectly making a case that Catholics are NOT Christians. While I disagree with SOME of the Church's teachings, to even imply that Catholics are not Christians is disgraceful and ignorance of the worst sort!
Only a few folks that I've known over the yrs believe that Catholics are not Christians. Of cse, they are wrong abt that! I quickly remind them of their misguided ways, and then demand an apology...since so many of us Prot'sts are former Catholics. (Every single 1 of them has complied, even the most stubborn among them.) Sure we have our disagreements, which I'm not going to downplay. But we Christians need to stick together in these times when our religion is under assault in some quarters, not fight amongst overselves, to unite against our real antagonists. These antagonists seek to undermine Christianity and replace it with other beliefs (e.g. Secularism and Islam). Such discussions only divide us and are counter-productive.
Having said that, while I respect Brenda and her fairly solid committment to Free Speech (something that's sorely lacking on most forums), I do not take much of what's said on that forum seriously anymore. So many of us, who used to enjoy participating on Brenda's, either seldom participate there or do not participate at all there anymore. Serious conversation has given way to silly ramblings from wannabees, some of whom claim to have daily contact with celebs...whose lives would fall apart w/o them. Pu-leaze! LoL. Others appear to be willing to throw everybody else's thoughts under the bus, just for an cameo appearance from a celeb on the forum. Thus, we do not take that forum seriously anymore, and mostly choose to remain in touch thru other means.
As for Joel, him and I have battled on Brenda's once or twice. I find him a bit impulsive at best. However, I empathize w/ his newly-found faith in Christ and his enthusiasm. I went thru the same wonderful exp'ce some 20 yrs ago. I wanted to shout it from the highest tree top! However, I've learned since that there's and time and place for everything. I'm not sure Brenda's is the best place for that, though I wholeheartedly defend his right to say whatever he wishes. If folks think it's too much, they should just let it pass to the bottom of the page and into cyberspace. As such, I've read some of Joel's comments and I believe that he was not out to ignite a firestorm. That's just my opinion though, since I dont know Joel.
Joan, I havent forgotten abt that 1 thread and will do my best to piece together my argument sometime this week. Hope all's well with all of you. Take care, God Bless,
Phil from AZ
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Joel -- Joan, 13:04:38 08/10/07 Fri [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
"As for Joel, him and I have battled on Brenda's once or twice. I find him a bit impulsive at best. However, I empathize w/ his newly-found faith in Christ and his enthusiasm."
I agree. He's so excited. It's hard *not* to smile when you read his post. He's like a little kid who just won something. He'll settle in, and he won't feel like he needs to tell everybody. And he'll soon learn that he's not responsible for "correcting" everyone elses beliefs. He'll soon learn that some of what he believes is wrong. OOps was that my Catholic showing through? lol
Seriously, it's the newly converted (Xians, Muslims, ex-smokers, ex-anythings) that are really a pain to be around. Patience. :-)
Joan
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Re: Exactly right Joan! Spot on!!! -- Phil, 14:05:34 08/10/07 Fri [1] (71-223-15-110.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.15.110)
That is so true. I recall a guy who became a very close Christian friend of mine my early days of VA. Him and his lovely wife had a problem with credit cards and debt. Like me, he was also new Christian. Much to our irritation, he found some obscure passage in the Old Testament and went around telling folks that it was a sin to incur any debt.
I felt that I owed it to him to say something. When I told him that he was overzealous, he frowned at me. What he didnt know was that my credit card balance was just a couple hundred dollars! LoL Since he was a recovering 'credit card junkie', he had no idea that folks could incur just a lil' debt and not go hog wild or that maybe we could use plastic just for emer'cies.
I also told him that his passage of the Bible didnt mean what he said it was...it was so weak of a connection...and since he was a new guy...folks wouldnt pay much attn anyways. I couldnt believe it when he said that he wouldnt do it anymore. (I'd lost sleep 'cuz I fig'd he'd give me a hard time.) Instead, it seemed like he was relieved that somebody wrestled him down from his soap box and told him to cut it out! LoL
In time, he scaled down his zealousness, but remained a good solid Christian that nearly every1 liked. And Joel will pro'bly settle down very, very soon. Meanwhile, I'm tempted to tease him a bit, but like you, I'll just TRY to smile and leave it be.
Take care, God Bless,
Phil from AZ
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Joel is still at it. -- Joan, 10:01:48 08/11/07 Sat [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
What a moron! We can only hope that he never finds his way here.
Does anyone know anything about him? Is he a real person or some troublemaker's alter ego?
Joan
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Brenda removed Joel's thread -- Joan, 10:49:31 08/11/07 Sat [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
I'm sure that it wasn't to remove anti-Catholic comments, but to remove threads that had degenerated into arguing.
For whatever reason, at least the anti-Catholic garbage is gone.
I know that Brenda would have removed it if the posts were attacking the Baptist church, Judaism, or some other religion. Catholicism and Islam are routinely bashed on Brenda's, and those posts are allowed to sit there. Shame.
Joan
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Re:I'm afraid you've discovered something Joan... -- Phil from AZ, 16:14:55 08/11/07 Sat [1] (71-223-15-110.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.15.110)
...that has bugged me abt forums since the beginning. There are several things that plague INet forums: favoritism, selective censorship, personal whim/taste and harmony over serious discussion. On Brenda's, I'm afraid we can also add the cult of the personality. LoL
Favoritism. It is not what you say that will get you banned, it's who you are. A 'favored member' can say whatever they like abt another member. When another person defends themselves, the second person's lumped into the category of troublemaker. The second person's posts are deleted and other members are allowed to attack them after they're banned or they quit. The forum leader then emails the other members behind the banned members back, stating that the person is banned because they're evil or some kind of psycho. Meanwhile, the favored person's stuff (often drivel) is allowed to stand. I've observed favoritism based on gender, age, geography, political views and yes...religion.
Selective censorship. A forum leader must have a solid set of stds before they open a forum. Most have no such plan, and as such, they often state: "This is my forum, and I will do whatever I want." Thus, they delete whatever they want, and thus, members are at the mercy of the whims of the forum leader. Often, the forum leader pays profuse homeage to Free Speech, but will delete you, without mercy, in a heartbeat. Often, the other members won't ever know what that person posted. The forum leader may then twist what was said by paraphrasing. The forum leader demands loyalty and those to don't pay homage become suspicious.
Personal Taste. What's offensive to one person may not be offensive to another. Forum leaders sometimes have no idea how much effort members put into a post. Yet, they will delete it in a heartbeat because of some small part of the post that they do not like. It's a difficult task indeed to be a forum leader, but they must have a specific set of stds, above and beyond their own (sometimes narrow, sometimes nutty) personal opinion abt things. If the forum leader does not like what a person said in part of a post, they should state that below...not just delete the entire post because of some minor off-hand, but unacceptable, utterance.
On Brenda's, there's the added dilemma of the Cult of the Personality. Its obvious to me that there's a preference to celebs...most of whom hardly ever post there. When they do, no matter how coherent and thoughtful the post, they take priority over all other members...including regular participants. That's sad, since its the posters that keep the forum going, not some occasional post from a celeb...usually when they have something to pitch.
One thing's for sure. On almost every forum, the HARMONY of the forum is more important than anything! Forum leaders will throw folks' posts, thoughtful and intelligent or otherwise, under the bus. With this notion, goes the concept of Free Speech, intelligent discussion, the truth and the right for folks to defend themselves against attack.
Having said that, I think that Brenda's record is pretty good on this stuff, except for the Cult of the Personality. I do not think that Brenda is anti-Catholic, but then again, I did not read much of 'Joel's infamous thread', and you folks may know her better than I. And, of cse, none of this applies to your forum, where intelligent discussion and fair play are the norm.
Hope you are all doing well.
Phil from soccer-crazy AZ
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More on Brenda's -- Joan, 10:55:35 08/11/07 Sat [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
I deleted the link to Brenda's once before, and I'm doing it again. IMO, it's obvious that Brenda is as anti-Catholic as the those who make the nasty posts. I won't support anyone who is like that.
If anyone thinks they can post anti anything here, they're wrong! This forum is for respectfully discussing religion. We don't always agree on the issues, but we can ask tough questions that make us think and still not attack each other's faith.
I thought Joel's enthusiastic post was kinda cute at first. How naive I was. lol
Joan
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Re: Paul's "Christianity vs Romanism" on Brenda's -- Neysa, 13:21:45 08/11/07 Sat [1] (user-38lciiq.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.74.90)
Can someone please fill me in on what is going on ? I did see Joel's remark about him being born again. All I thought was why did he post that on a Walton's Forum ? The threads were so long already I didn't read them, since I felt he shouldn't have used that forum to make such a statement.
Did Joel say something anti-Catholic???
I also don't think he is that old. Maybe, in his 20's. I might be getting him confused with someone else.
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Joan, Walton's Forum -- Neysa, 15:56:42 08/11/07 Sat [1] (user-38lci3a.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.72.106)
Did you ever consider starting your own Walton's Forum ? I was surprised to find that it is the only forum about the Walton's. I cannot figure out why???
I cannot figure Brenda Irby, out, she seems like she is a very narrow minded person.
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Re: Neysa, see above... -- Phil from AZ, 16:20:50 08/11/07 Sat [1] (71-223-15-110.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.15.110)
I have some thoughts on forums. Some of it is gen'l; other parts are specific. Its stuff I've based on my own opinion, as well as several regular posters.
Hope you and yours are having a great wkend. Take care, God Bless,
Phil from AZ
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Joan -- Catie, 05:51:30 08/13/07 Mon [1] (h32.237.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.237.32)
To be honest, Brenda did allow a couple of posts by a fellow who made a strong anti-semitic remark. When I spoke up to him I was immediately blasted by Phil who came to his defense.
Things escalated and got out of control with several other posts by a few others. Brenda then removed the posts. I say this to let you know that anti-Catholic statements are not the only ones posted that can cause an upset.
Now, In defense of Brenda, I'd like to say when the conversation got out of control it was brought to her attention. I'm not sure she even saw the anti-semitic post that set things in motion.
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You've got to be joking, Catie!!!.................. -- Barb, 08:13:37 08/13/07 Mon [1] (clgrtnt6-port-3.dial.telus.net/161.184.50.3)
I'm sure there has never, ever been an anti-semitic remark made in this whole world...ever, ever!!! lol
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Re: Joan -- Joan, 09:48:00 08/13/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
I missed that one!
What is wrong with people on that forum? I guess they feel that it's a safe place ot vent their hatred.
I've learned through the years that many people who are fans of The Waltons see the show as a show about religion specifically--how Protestantism is properly lived in a family and community setting.
For years I had no idea that people were viewing the show like that. IMO, it was a 70's show that used a 1930's rural community setting to discuss 1970's liberal political and social ideals. That others saw it as a platform for Protestantism surprised me to no end.
I guess we all take different things from the shows we watch and the books we read.
In the past I would agree w/ you about Brenda. I had given her the benefit of the doubt when she didn't remove anti-Catholic posts. But she responded to that thread and the posts remained. Maybe her policy is that she'll let anything stand until someone complains about it. ???
Joan
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Re: Just for the record.... -- Phil, 11:57:55 08/13/07 Mon [1] (71-223-15-110.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.15.110)
I did not defend his anti-Semitism, if I remember the incident correctly. I was merely attempting to defend his right to say it. And I 'blasted' you, rather mildly, for meddling on the forum. It appeared to me that you were trying to run the young man off the forum in an overzealous attempt to maintain your safe, lil' demographic that some of you prefer.
I just wanted to set the record straight.
Phil from AZ
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Re: And I should add... -- Phil from AZ, 12:02:59 08/13/07 Mon [1] (71-223-15-110.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.15.110)
...that I did not see his rmk as anti-Semitic. I also did not agree with his argument, and stated so to that effect.
Phil
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