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Date Posted: 11:53:58 07/17/07 Tue
Author: Neysa
Author Host/IP: user-2inik1k.dialup.mindspring.com / 165.121.80.52
Subject: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ?
Pope Benedict recently made a statement regarding the exclusivity of the Catholic Church. Do you think the Holy Father's statement might polarize relations between the Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox ?
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Re: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ? -- Catie, 04:39:25 07/18/07 Wed [1] (h95.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.95)
Honestly I think that it will give credence to protestants who feel the Catholic church can be rather arrogant (for lack of better word)in its acceptance of others. If in fact the pope meant all churches should come back to their roots, come back home as you stated, that meaning I believe, will get lost in interpretation.
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Re: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ? -- Joan, 05:19:09 07/18/07 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
"If in fact the pope meant all churches should come back to their roots, come back home as you stated, that meaning I believe, will get lost in interpretation."
But that has been the constant message the Catholic Church has been stating for centuries.
I don't mean this to sound harsh or overly critical. Many non-Catholics don't understand Catholic things because they don't know what is actually being said or done, and (here's the criticism part) they don't seem to want to know. When a Catholic explains what is actually believed or done, we are often accused of being hoodwinked by the Church, as if they (non-Catholics) know what the Catholic Church is, but its members don't. And if not hoodwinked, then ignorant of our own faith.
How many times are Catholics told that they worship Mary. We explain what we actually do, and then the *same* non-Catholic will make the *same* accusation again.
Is there a will on the part of some non-Catholics to believe what they want to believe about Catholicism, regardless of what they are told, because that's what they (think they) know, and that is more comfortable than learning the truth of the matter?
I honestly can't figure out why someone who has been taught what a Catholic doctrine really is, will still insist that it's something else. It's positively weird. :-)
Joan
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Wow, I really went off on a tangent there. -- Joan, 06:15:17 07/18/07 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
Back on topic.
The Church doesn't exclude others, in the sense that it doesn't want non-Catholics in its midst. The Church does want non-Catholics to come back home.
But I doubt that whatever interpretation someone takes away from it (exclusion or a call to come home) will sit well with many. Many wouldn't attend a Catholic Mass or even enter a Catholic Church, much less join the Church. They don't like feeling like they're excluded from Catholic Sacraments, but they don't believe and don't want to join the Catholic Church.
No one is excluded and everyone is invited to join, and still no one is happy about the message. Sometimes you just can't win. :-)
I believe that members of other denominations want the CC to change its beliefs and accept contradictory beliefs as just as valid as its own. But how could that ever be? If you believe that A is right, and B is a contradictory belief, then how could you accept B as also true?
They want the right to recieve Catholic Sacraments, but they don't believe in them and they don't want to be Catholic. Why would they want to participate if they don't believe and don't want to be Catholic? Would they also want to participate in a Muslim service? I really don't think they would. They wouldn't expect to be able to, and they wouldn't want to because they don't believe. So why do they want to, and expect to be able to participate in Catholic Sacraments?
I really don't get it. What is it about the Catholic Church that makes many other Christians want to participate as a confirmed Catholic, but not want to *be* a confirmed Catholic?
If they don't believe in this "stuff" anyway, what difference does it make to them if they're not allowed to receive a Sacrament?
Joan
PS: Catholics are required to accept all Catholic doctrines--you can't pick and choose the ones you like and ignore the rest.
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Good grief, I strayed again. Off to bed. Maybe a little sleep will help. :-) -- Joan, 06:18:15 07/18/07 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
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Re: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ? -- Catie, 07:30:26 07/18/07 Wed [1] (h95.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.95)
"They want the right to recieve Catholic Sacraments, but they don't believe in them and they don't want to be Catholic. Why would they want to participate if they don't believe and don't want to be Catholic? "
Are you referring to communion there? If so, I think I have an answer to that one. If you're not, then just disregard the following. LOL :
Communion is not exclusively a Catholic tradition. Anyone, claiming to be Christian, reading the bible, should want to follow Christ's example and be obedient by having communion. It goes back to what I said in a previous post; A protestant Christian feels that being a "Christian" means we are all followers of Christ, not a church, not a tradition. Since Christ himself set the example of communion, then all Christians are free and even expected to follow that practice. For a protestant wanting to receive communion in a Catholic church doesn't mean they want to follow Catholic teaching, but to follow the command of Jesus and share fellowship with fellow Christians.
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Re: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ? -- Joan, 09:38:19 07/18/07 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
'Communion is not exclusively a Catholic tradition. Anyone, claiming to be Christian, reading the bible, should want to follow Christ's example and be obedient by having communion. It goes back to what I said in a previous post; A protestant Christian feels that being a "Christian" means we are all followers of Christ, not a church, not a tradition. Since Christ himself set the example of communion, then all Christians are free and even expected to follow that practice. For a protestant wanting to receive communion in a Catholic church doesn't mean they want to follow Catholic teaching, but to follow the command of Jesus and share fellowship with fellow Christians.'
Except that Protestants don't believe that the bread and wine really do become the body and bread of Christ in reality not in a symbolic way. They don't believe that, but they want to participate.
Do they think the CC is supposed to look the other way on their disbelief about this Sacrament and let them participate anway? Why would anyone think that another denomination should change its beliefs and teaching so they can participate? I think that's too much to ask.
They also don't like that they can't be God parents to Catholic infants. But they don't believe again. They don't believe that Baptism confers grace, that it's not just a symbol of something the person feels or believes. That take on Baptism is at odds with the CC's take on Baptism. So how could a non-Catholic be a God parent? The person is speaking for the infant. He is responsible for the Child's religious training if something happens to the parents. How can he speak for the child, if he doesn't believe in the Sacrament in a Catholic way. In many cases, the non-Catholic doesn't believe in infant Baptism anyway.
These people don't believe, and yet they are upset that they can't participate. Again, it must be that they want the CC to look the other way, ignore their disbelief in Catholic doctrine, and let them "play along" as if belief in the Sacrament (in accordance w/ Catholic doctrine) isn't important.
Moreover, they want the CC to change to "rules" for them. A person who is Baptised as a baby and who has been brought up in the Catholic faith, but hasn't recieved the Sacrament of First Holy Communion, can't just one day decide to recieve. He would have to go through the process of recieving the Sacraments.
Also, a person who had made his First Confession and First Holy Communion, but who wasn't confirmed, can't be married in the CC. He also can't be a God parent.
So why should the rules not apply to non-Catholics?
Since believing in the doctrines of the CC is required of anyone recieving the Sacraments, how could someone who doesn't believe in them participate?
Would most Protestants choose to become Catholics in order to participate? If not, why do they complain? If they don't believe in the Sacrament, why would they want to participate in the first place?
Joan
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Re: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ? -- Catie, 10:26:51 07/18/07 Wed [1] (h95.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.95)
I think, (again just an opinion)the average protestant simply isn't aware of the CC prerequiste to receive communion. Obviously in the CC eyes there is more to it than coming into the church and sharing communion. For protestants the only requirement is tht you are a Christian with no unconfessed sin in your life. Therefore one Christian can freely go and visit another protestant church and receive communion.
Let me ask, is it common to hear protestants to complain because they can't receive communion? Truly I had no idea. For me personally it wasn't a matter of complaining. Clearly I can receive communion at my own church. It was more of a case of understanding the reasons why one must be Catholic to receive communion at a CC, the way one would at other churches.
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Re: Is Pope Benedict XVI Recent Statement Divisive ? -- Joan, 05:46:21 07/20/07 Fri [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)
"Let me ask, is it common to hear protestants to complain because they can't receive communion?"
Yep, unfortunately it is. I don't know why it makes them so mad. The only think I can think of is that they feel like the CC is a club that they're not allowed to join. Which is really weird to me, because all are invited to join, but few accept the invite. They hate the CC and just about everything it stands for, and yet they're mad that they can't recieve the Eucharist. Scratching my head on that one. ;-)
I have no respect for religious cults, but I couldn't care less if I'm not allowed at one of their services.
Can you make heads or tails of that? I don't get it. Someone hates something, doesn't believe in it, and yet is made that he can't participate in what he hates and disbelieves. ?????
Joan
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