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Last edited by author: Mon September 17, 2007 05:55:37   Edited 2 times.

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• 1. Both Pat and Casey are ready to risk themselves to help others- must be that they learned it from their dad- we've seen that quality in Brian - he tried to help Robin and Robin's little sister. And it could be that having been abandoned by their mom, they constantly seek a connection, love and affectio, from others, particularly those that seem abandoned by society. (NT) -- susiej, 06:37:25 09/17/07 Mon

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• #3. Well, I can't help thinking that Pamela must be thinking something along the lines of "I did what I did in Boston to keep him safe and now he comes back here and hangs with some pretty dangerous characters all over again!" (NT) -- susiej, 06:40:28 09/17/07 Mon

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• As for the paintings ( a really interesting question), I don't know all these artists so I can only comment on a few- Pollack- well, that's Jamie's life- trying to make sense of what seems senseless, trying to see the beauty and the pattern in something that seems completely out of control. Degas was a man who saw the beauty and tenderness in what others looked upon as the seedy side of life. (NT) -- susiej, 06:47:43 09/17/07 Mon

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• I agree susiej. I will add that I think these types of things in a persons personality are genetic. We all have certain traits, and these can be brought out or beat down, according to how we are raised and what we see in those years of childhood, when we are the most influenced by our parents and peers. (NT) -- bug, 06:49:56 09/17/07 Mon

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• Forgot to mention that I had a song running through my mind during much of Chapter 24 - 'Leather and Lace' sung by Stevie Nicks and Don Henley. Just seemed so fitting for Casey and Pamela in this particular lovemaking scene. (NT) -- Elaine, 09:34:44 09/17/07 Mon
  • I love that song, Elaine. In fact your mentioning it got me to go download it from iTunes. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 10:28:25 09/17/07 Mon
    • I learned the most interesting little tidbit today. >>>> -- Elaine, 12:17:50 09/17/07 Mon
    • Oh, and I have another song idea for much later in your book, one that feels like a perfect fit to me. I'll reveal it when my 2nd set of questions take place near the end of Mermaid. (NT) -- Elaine, 12:19:09 09/17/07 Mon
      • Now that's just mean, you know how NOT good at waiting I am. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 12:56:35 09/17/07 Mon
        • oh, ho, ho- the little sadist can't take what she dishes out *g*! (NT) -- susiej, 14:56:35 09/17/07 Mon
          • Susie, I am NOTORIOUSLY impatient. My DH actually said that to me the other day, 'you are an impatient woman' but he said it in a good natured fashion. Kind of ironic, isn't it? My dad is the same, it must be genetics. :) (NT) -- celtgirl, 15:30:55 09/17/07 Mon

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• Not the usual responses today - either it's because it's Monday, or perhaps because I went a little too far into surrealism here with today's questions. Promise tomorrow's will be more reader-friendly! Hope you don't mind if I just take a stab at these, if for no other reason than to generate some debate. Forgive me if I'm way off-base. (NT) -- Elaine, 16:23:46 09/17/07 Mon
  • 23-1) Along the same lines as susiej's, I think Patrick cannot NOT help others. He comes from a long line of people who recognize injustice. Having been a victim himself in his young life, Pat feels the pain of others deeply. (NT) -- Elaine, 16:36:37 09/17/07 Mon
  • (23-2) Victor had a dream, only to see it destroyed by forces beyond his control. If he had stayed on the scene, he likely would have been regarded as the perpetrator of something that ultimately victimized him, similar to the centuries when the poor and Catholic in Ireland were criminalized for being poor and Catholic. It is a never-ending circle. Pamela, I believe, was meant to witness this scene because it would prepare her heart and home for someone else who would soon enter her life, someone whose dreams have been dashed through no fault of his own. She is now brought into the plight of the forever downcast in Irish society because her art can educate, much like the courageous photographers who brought the harsh realities of the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl into the living rooms of average Americans. The lens of a camera can be unforgiving, but it sometimes takes that for others to see the harsh realities around them. (NT) -- Elaine, 16:40:26 09/17/07 Mon
  • 24-1) Just going to throw out some phrases that seem to link Jamie with the artists: -- Elaine (), 17:13:20 09/17/07 Mon
    • Ealine, I took a quick peek at some if these artist's work and I was unable to come up with any sort of sense of anything.in comparison to Jamie Bravo to you!! Probably the only artist I would really enjoy on my walls would be Degas, most of the other work is too pop, impressionist, surreal, who knows but it's not my style! (NT) -- Denise, 18:23:24 09/17/07 Mon
  • 24-2) Casey experienced the life-affirming draw to old alliances, to be sure, but I also feel as though there is some subliminal thing taking place in Casey's mind and it resulted in taking risks even though he knows better. He wants - he needs - to feel strong and in control, as if to say, 'Look, I can get this close to the fire and still not get burned.' He knows deep within himself that somehow he had been protected in Boston, but in his mind he's supposed to be the protector. He isn't quite ready to stand face to face with his demons yet, so to keep them at bay he behaves as a child would, laughing to keep himself from crying. (NT) -- Elaine, 17:28:17 09/17/07 Mon

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• 23.1) Yes, it's in his nature for sure. I wonder if it's also the generation...and the advancement of media...TV seeing the ideals coming out of Civil Rights America. Pat does come from a long line of people fighting injustice but he's a peaceful sort, not about trying to force the issue with violence he'd rather educate them. Yea, that's a generational thing I think. (NT) -- Marilyn, 17:04:29 09/17/07 Mon

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• 23.2) This might be a stretch..but I kind of thought of Victor and his story as representative of Irish immigrants. Though he never left the country, he had to move and keep moving from fear or poverty. Moving around trying to make a living, feed his family, live in peace. He was looked down on for this lifestyle and not accepted (or at least not for long) in any one place...like the immigrants were unwelcome in the New World. And tragedy keeps following them or finding them just as Irish history keeps repeating itself. I didn't think Pamela was necessarily meant to see this tragedy..they didn't know aye? Sure and she's seen Irish tragedy before on her other 'adventures' with Pat and even experienced it herself. (NT) -- Marilyn, 17:16:58 09/17/07 Mon

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• 23.3) Not the same thing, but yep I felt like an outsider every time I entered a new school. 7 different schools in 12 years..the only time I was with other military kids who understood was when we were overseas, then it wasn't so bad. But being the new kid in a school where most of the kids have been together since 1st grade...yea they look at you like you are an outsider. (NT) -- Marilyn (), 17:20:54 09/17/07 Mon

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• I'm going arse foremost again, and starting with the second question. Chapter 24 Q1) I decided to have a keek at the paintings of Joseph Mallord William Turner, whose name rang a bell, but I would have been hard pressed to identify a particular painting as his. Most of his work is very imprecise, in the sense that there are great swaths of muted and subtle colours blended together to give a wonderful sense of light and reflection (the man does the sky and clouds in many moods superbly) and he also has some very precise and detailed pictures. But even in the more vaguely imaged ones, there is always a detailed image hidden admist the swirls, which you can't fully appreciate until you look very closely. You can check the pictures out here http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/turner/ >>>> -- Carla, 17:38:23 09/17/07 Mon
  • This is quite beautiful. Jamie takes on more facets to me because of your interpretation of this man's art. (NT) -- Elaine, 20:40:26 09/17/07 Mon

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• 24.2) I thought the only power he was trying to assert over Pamela with the whole 'mine' pleasure/pain scenario was that she was his and not Jamie's. It felt a little like a jealousy thing to me. Just like in EU when Casey returns from prison, he can be perceived as a threat or an outsider until the powers that be know where he stands again. He warns Pamela away from Joe because he's dangerous and more so since he doesn't know how much of a threat Casey is to his position. I felt like Pamela was rolling her eyes thinking 'god they are just a bunch of grown up boys' :) (NT) -- Marilyn, 17:53:43 09/17/07 Mon

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• Chapter 23 Q 1) I think Pat, as well as Casey, as simply good people. They were both taught as children that helping others is important, and learned by doing so the satisfaction that comes with helping. Helping also tends to be part of the culture in places where most people have very little, or hard times happen all too easily. You help when you can, knowing it will be your turn to be helped at some point. I think both are also passionate about righting wrongs and protecting/helping those weaker then themselves, another legacy from Brian but also part of their inborn personalities. Some people simply derive more satisfaction from others, or feel that without doing something to help others they aren't fulfilled themselves. (NT) -- Carla, 18:05:11 09/17/07 Mon

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• Chapt. 23 Q 2) I think Victor reflects the fact that in such turmoil, prejudice and upheaval, there are always those who fall through the cracks, and always those who are marginalized and hated by all sides. I don't know that it was necessary for Pamela to be a witness to this brutal event, but I think it served to bring home to her just how brutal, unfair and unforgiving life really could be for those on the edge. It certainly pushed her activisim and desire to bring change to Northern Ireland ahead and made the situation more personal and immediate for her. (NT) -- Carla, 18:10:02 09/17/07 Mon

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• Chapt. 23 Q3) I think most people have been, or felt like, outsiders at some time in their lives, even if it's only walking into a party or meeting where everybody else seems to know each other and you don't know a soul. I've definitely felt like a fish out of water in the last two places I lived, where the majority raved about how wonderful it was there and I wasn't so fussed. My views tend to be a little farther left than the mainstream, as well, and many of our friends are in business etc. and so are more middle, if not right of center. And I won't even get into my opinion on how doctors and hospitals deal with birthing women :) I've never felt deliberatly excluded, though, or as if others were hoping for my downfall. (NT) -- Carla, 18:14:13 09/17/07 Mon

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• Being an outsider, well I truly understand that one. I try, but just don't really fit in with any place I have tried to fit, other than being on the mountain, with my dogs. the last question there: all I can say is that I never liked my husband when he was drunk, still don't. so this particular incident didn't do a thing for me. i thought it was really funny the guard caught them. that was quite amusing. (NT) -- bug, 19:33:24 09/17/07 Mon

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• 23-3) For all my life, with very few exceptions, I have been the outsider. One of those few exceptions has been here at S&S where even those of us who may think a little differently are still acceptable and welcomed. (NT) -- Elaine, 20:44:26 09/17/07 Mon
  • Elaine, I tend to think we are all a bit on the outside of norm, not quite following the path of our peers, but here we've found a group of like-minded ladies and we've bonded. There are few, of any, people I can talk to about the things we discuss, whether it's books, music, movies, sex - we have a lot of common interests and similar ways of looking at the world. (NT) -- Denise, 21:05:17 09/17/07 Mon
    • Yep, I feel the same way. I have a very dear friend who I once gave a book to (I heard the Owl Call my Name, a very beautiful and spirtitual bookabout Pacific NW Indians and the Episcopal priest who lived with them) and she said "Oh don't ever give me another book like that- become the salmon, I hate that." This woman is intelligent and interesting and she does read a lot and I read everything she gives me- I was like WTF is she so uninterested in anything I think. She was honest but what a shut down! (NT) -- susiej, 07:55:51 09/18/07 Tue

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• The artists and Jamie- well I love Turner myself, I love the dreaminess of his painting, as for Vermeer- anyone who spent seven years of their life perfecting their own shade of blue is someone I can admire. With Vermeer, I find there's a real luminosity to his work beyond the subject and I know that would appeal to Jamie. With Jack Yeats- I love the boldness of the lines and how heavy the colour is- Jamie would appreciate that too. :). And he'd see the vision in the modern artists and know a good investment when he saw one as well. (NT) -- celtgirl, 08:07:45 09/18/07 Tue