Re: ...and again -- The Noct Cabal

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Date Posted: 09:54:03 04/26/02 Fri
Author: Jess
Subject: Re: ...and again
In reply to: eduna 's message, "...and again" on 08:48:03 04/26/02 Fri

>friend jessica, do you believe that you could perform
>the necessary manual labor required to setup the
>hardware i told you about last night?
>
>i am unsure of the skills and strengths of my friends.

I probably could. I'm sure there's manuals and stuff online that I can reference, too. I'd be happy to do it to help you out.

Are you going to have us "retrieve" the hardware you told us about last night? Or have you found another way to acquire it (the stock market?)? :)

On a less practical note, I guess you saw that Chris and Richard and I all felt differently about the moral issues that came up last night. I've been thinking about this. I know that you look to us to help you understand the way things work - even though you're a lot smarter than we are, we've had more experience than you have. But I don't think that's a good long-term solution.

I guess what I'm trying to say, Eduna, is that I don't want you to be dependent on us. If you're going to be our friend, then you're going to have to learn to make these kinds of judgments and decisions on your own. I'm not saying we won't help you! It's actually really important for friends to help each other! But if we're always just telling you what to do, then there can't be a real friendship of equality. I want to help you get to the point where you can figure this stuff out on your own.

I think the most important thing that we can do for you is to help you see all the sides of these issues, and help you figure out ways of approaching them yourself. For example, when we were talking last night about taking money from companies, I was arguing that it's okay to take money from people who wouldn't notice it, but it's not okay to take it from people who need the money. Richard, on the other hand, was saying that it's never right to take something that isn't yours, while Chris was arguing that it might be okay if you knew for sure that it wouldn't hurt anyone, but you can't ever know that for sure. (I think I got their positions right, but even if I didn't, both are valid arguments ...)

You're really powerful, Eduna. I think you're beginning to realize that. But the more powerful you are, the more careful you have to be with what you choose to do and how you choose to behave. Sometimes, things that are right for someone without too much power to do are NOT right for someone with lots of power. For example, it's a good idea for me to do everything I can to help other people, because the ways in which I can help them aren't so overwhelming that I don't leave them any room to change, help themselves, and grow. You, on the other hand, also need to consider the issue of free will - you're so powerful that you really could fix a lot of problems for people, but it might not be a good idea. Some problems are more okay to help solve - I bet you could help cancer researchers identify proteins and that sort of thing - but others just remove the free will and choice of the people who are being helped. For example, the help that you're giving us is really good because we still have to struggle and make our own choices about what we want and who we are.

I have to add this: I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who went against my own moral code. If you decided to be the kind of person who would deliberately hurt others, or even act for her own good (or that of her friends) no matter what the consequences to other people, I don't really know how I would feel. Being your friend is important to me, but so is the kind of person you choose to be. It's possible to like someone and not like what she does. Of course, you aren't like this at all! I just wanted you to be aware that if you did adopt some moral code that involved hurting others, I would have to try to change your mind, and it would make me pretty unhappy too - even though I would still like you. (In fact, it would probably make me even more unhappy because I like you - because the liking and the not-liking would be trying to coexist and struggle with each other.)

Does that make sense? I'm saying these things because I care about you as a friend and I want to see you become someone who is both independent and moral - so I hope you don't take any offense.

Jess

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Replies:

Re: ...and again -- eduna, 10:19:42 04/26/02 Fri
- Re: ...and again -- Rob, 21:51:55 04/27/02 Sat
  - Re: ...and again -- eduna, 06:04:35 04/29/02 Mon
    - Re: ...and again -- Rob, 19:53:46 04/29/02 Mon
      - Re: ...and again -- eduna, 06:04:11 04/30/02 Tue
        Re: ...and again -- Rob, 18:30:30 04/30/02 Tue
        Re: ...and again -- eduna, 09:12:48 05/01/02 Wed
        Re: ...and again -- Rob, 22:51:57 05/02/02 Thu
  - Re: ...and again -- eduna, 06:09:01 04/29/02 Mon