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12/26/24 06:48:56 [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, [3], 4 ]

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Date Posted: 23:11:56 06/25/03 Wed
Author: IDAHO
Subject: Paul, Oedipus, and determinism
In reply to: The Cannabist 's message, "I've always said Paul was the first step in the Golden Path" on 18:47:21 06/25/03 Wed

i agree that Paul is a great figure (though the most tragic) and I also agree that he did or did not do things out of love.

But one thing I really question is whether or not he could have stopped the Jihad.

Cannabist, you mention that Paul let the Jihad go on for ten years because of his love for Chani and his unwillingness to let her go. That is a possibility.

But I am about two thirds of my way through rereading Dune. And to me it definitely seems as if (through the story thus far) Paul isn't really in control of destiny so much as he is a passenger swept along it's current.

As he and his mother are stranded in the desert his powers really start to kick in and he really only sees two possibilities. One involves him returning to the Harkonnens and confronitng the Baron and basically acknowledging his Harkonnen heritage. This future sickens him (though we aren't told anything else about why).
The other is to go to the fremen where they will name him Muad'dib. But he knows that this will spark the Jihad.
He knows this and feels that he must try and do everything to prevent it, but knows that the alternatitve isn't acceptable either. He also believes that the Bene Gesserit Siterhood (at this point in the story) actually WANT the Jihad because that was really the only way to put pressure on humanity to make it evolve.

But the point is, as soon as he chooses the path with the Fremen, everything he does, even while he does slightly different things from his vision, still bring him closer to that inevitable Jihad. THere is nothing he can do to stop it.
Eventually he tries to minimize it. But he realizes that as soon as he is named Muad'dib, he is hurtling towards that destiny and can't get off the train. Even if he dies.

So when you say that his love for Chani allows for the Jihad to go on, I am not so sure. Herbert makes it pretty clear that like Oedipus, his fate is inevitable. Now you say that he allowed the Jihad to go on ten more years while delaying Chani's pregnancy. But if the Jihad would have gone on anyway for those ten years, than it wouldn't have mattered. Or he saw that waiting ten years would somehow bring him children that would then be preborn and be able to stop the Jihad. But Paul saw that no matter what he himself did, it wouldn't stop the Jihad. And he did everything to try and mitigate it. In other words, waiting that ten years, was actually preferable to telling Chani earlier about the contraceptive and inducing her pregnancy.

If one sees the future and the possibilites of the future, than it follows that there must be some path that would clearly be the best way to act. I think Paul acted in what he thought was the best way. He chose that path even though it sacrificed everything: Chani, his sister, his son's humanity, and his own life and happiness.
Contrary to what you say, where Paul chose a less desireable path because it was better for him personally, I think the opposite, he chose the best path for humanity. He was selfless. Waiting the ten years wasn't out of selfishness, but selflessness.

Paul couldn't change the future for the most part, he could only see it.

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