Re: Traditional Church -- Catholic Friends Forum

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Date Posted: 15:20:11 03/29/08 Sat
Author: Catie
Author Host/IP: h14.121.29.71.ip.alltel.net / 71.29.121.14
Subject: Re: Traditional Church
In reply to: Neysa 's message, "Traditional Church" on 12:06:24 03/27/08 Thu

..."It has no stained glass, and except for a few elements (the tabernacle, a crucifix, and a few statues), you would think you were in a Protestant church."

"When they were finished it was so plain inside, that it looked like a Protestant Church."

Sorry. I can't help but laugh when I read these. What kinds of protestant churches have y'all visited in the past?! lol

I have been to humble plain church buildings, I have been to "mega" churche buildings, I have been to very ornate church buildings. The "Church" is God's children, not the building itself. The building is simply a gathering place to worship. He said "Where two or more are gathered together in my name, I am there in the midst of them." That could be someone's livingroom, a tattered tent, or a magnificient building with gold and stained glass windows.

I go to worship, regardless of the building. I personally feel too much emphasis and money is spent on gathering places called "churches". Christ was our example and he rebuked the Pharasees for being so haughty and using such finery when folks were going hungry. God says he doesn't change. He doesn't look on outside appearances but at the heart. I think he would feel the same today.

For the record, my church seats about 300 or more, Has a baptistry at the front of the sanctuary which is situated in front of a Large stained glass window in cathedral ceiling style. It has glass chandeliers throughout, a balcony and is very nice but not so formal that I fear moving about or touching anything in the sanctuary. God's house is to be revered regardless if it's plain or ornate, in my opinion.

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[> [> [> Re: Sad as it may be, I agree with Catie... -- Phil, 19:37:24 03/29/08 Sat [1] (71-223-7-96.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.7.96)

Catholics often state things in a condescending fashion, then get angry with us Prot'nts when we state the truth, even moreso when correct them on the error of their ways.

Truth be told: Catholics have trouble distinguishing btwn the physical church and the congregation of the faithful. They seem appalled, for example, when I tell the wonderful story of a church gathering that started in somebody's living room and blossomed into 1 of the largest churches in the Vegas area. As if, this story is weird and barbaric or something.

Most Prot'nts are much more focused on the congregation itself and less on the physical bldg itself and what some for'n potentate says, not to mention, more on spiritual matters (such as doctrine and the Bible) than on the bureaucratic organization that rules from afar with a iron fist.

Something that I've observed, having converted from Catholic to Prot'nt. I'm sure this wont be popular but its still very obvious to me.

Take care, God Bless,

Phil from AZ

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[> [> [> [> Re: Some of this didnt come out the way I wanted it, Joan... -- Phil, 00:08:54 03/30/08 Sun [1] (71-223-7-96.phnx.qwest.net/71.223.7.96)

Plz feel free to delete it if you wish. Take care, God Bless,

Phil

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[> [> [> [> [> Stripping of the Altars -- Joan, 07:11:31 03/30/08 Sun [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

It's no secret that Catholic churches (the buildings) were stripped of anything that others thought smacked of idolatry. They completely misunderstood the meaning and function of the beautiful things they were destroying. If for no other reason than respect for art, they shouldn't have destroyed those objects.

I've been in protestant churches that are more ornate than my parish church. But Catholic churches are usually much more ornate than Protestant churches.

I just like a traditional style church building. It doesn't matter is if extremely ornate, so long as it's set up in a traditional way and has traditional style art. I don't care for the abstract crosses. If there is stained glass, I prefer pictoral vs geometric.

For that matter, I like a traditional style house, too. The newer, open floor plans don't appeal to me, especially when you get a view of the kitchen sink from the front door. :)

"God is in all these churches both lavish and plain. But,as a Catholic, I like what I've been used to since my childhood; that is a lavish church."

Very well said.

Joan

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[> [> [> [> [> [> This was supposed to be under Neysa's post. -- Joan, 07:47:39 03/30/08 Sun [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

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[> [> [> [> Traditional Catholic Church -- Neysa, 00:26:01 03/30/08 Sun [1] (user-2ive065.dialup.mindspring.com/165.247.0.197)

I love the statues, all the gold and oppulence of an old traditional Catholic Church. In England I was in Anglican Churches that were very oppulent. If I didn't know before going inside I would have thought it was a Catholic Church.

I was taught in school that there is nothing wrong with the the inside of a Church being lavish, after all it is God's house, we are honoring him with all the beauty. That is why Mother Angelica made her shrine in Huntsville,so lavish inside. That is what I was brought up with and to me it gives me a warm feeling inside when I walk into an ornate church.

When I walk into a Catholic Church I expect and want this lavishness, as did my ancestors. Otherwise, they would have left the Catholic Church, and become Protestant. As we all know many did just that because they felt that you don't need a lavish church, just a plain building without statues, etc... to worship God. I agree you don't need all that lavishness. I've been in an Episcopal and Lutheran Church that was ornate. In a Reformed Church of Chist, and an Assembly of God that was plain. God is in all these churches both lavish and plain. But,as a Catholic, I like what I've been used to since my childhood; that is a lavish church. Perhaps, if I grew up worshipping in a plain, modern, Catholic Church I might have a different view about a traditional vs modern Catholic Church.

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[> [> [> [> What a load of crap -- Joan, 07:03:00 03/30/08 Sun [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

Where do you get your information, Phil? I suggest you buy a copy of the CCC. You have no idea what Catholics believe about anything, including how we define "Church". Buy a Catholic dictionary while you're at the bookstore. The people there will help you find the religion section. :)

Joan

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[> [> [> Huh? -- Joan, 07:29:50 03/30/08 Sun [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

In my original post, I was obviously talking about the churches, meaning the buildings. What do you call the buildings, if not churches? "God's house?" "House of worship?" Those are good, too. But "church" is also defined as the building. It's not that Catholics don't understand that God's church on Earth refers to something other than the building.

There are so many misconceptions about what Catholics believe. Why do you think that Catholics think that church means only the building? Where did you hear that? Did someone tell you that?

"God's house is to be revered regardless if it's plain or ornate, in my opinion"

I'm not sure where you think I said any church shouldn't be, especially when I was talking about how much I like my church now, which isn't ornate as most Catholic churches.

"I have been to humble plain church buildings, I have been to "mega" churche buildings, I have been to very ornate church buildings. The "Church" is God's children, not the building itself. The building is simply a gathering place to worship. He said "Where two or more are gathered together in my name, I am there in the midst of them." That could be someone's livingroom, a tattered tent, or a magnificient building with gold and stained glass windows."

You might not be aware, but the CC parishes started in a similar way. It's not true that the CC built church buildings and then founded a parish. Our parish is older than the church building.

As my original post indicates, Catholic churches come in all varieties, too. Look at Catholic Churches in New England, and then look at them in Southern California. They don't look alike at all.

Protestant churches in New England tend to be the smaller, plainer churches that you see depicted on Xmas cards--the little white church, set in snow, with warm light in every window. But there are lots of newer Protestant churches, too. They tend to be the modern style I don't like.

The Catholic parish I grew up in had a moderm building with light-colored wood, abstract stained-glass windows. It was more-or-less round. You couldn't walk straight from the entrance to the altar, because the aisle ended at the backs of several rows of arced pews that ran across directly in front of the altar. There was some kind of modern decorative wall structure that the crucifix was attached to behind the altar. Each element was horrid, but taken together...Yikes! I just don't like modern buildings. I especially don't like modern churches.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Huh? -- catie, 06:24:51 04/01/08 Tue [1] (h14.121.29.71.ip.alltel.net/71.29.121.14)

No, no, I never thought that Catholics believe the church is the building and no one said that to me. I was just reminding us ALL as Christians that the church is "God's people" regardless of where any of us worship. We do have our preferences but we must be careful not to get into a rut about where we prefer to worship, because as I said, he is there wherever we gather. I do have problems with tons of money being put into a building when I know darn well Christ would have taken that money to feed the poor. That goes for any church, Protestant or Catholic.

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[> [> [> [> [> Oh and I laughed because all t he "plain" churches were being -- Catie, 06:27:42 04/01/08 Tue [1] (h14.121.29.71.ip.alltel.net/71.29.121.14)

referred to as the protestant churches. That struck me funny because I have been in few protestant churches that were not ornate. They lack the statues, etc, but were very ornate none the less.

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[> [> [> [> [> I do too Catie............ -- Neysa, 09:42:03 04/01/08 Tue [1] (user-2ive03i.dialup.mindspring.com/165.247.0.114)

Although, I like a traditional lavish church with pictoral stained glass windows, traditional cross and statues. I do have a problem with tons of money being spent if it is in a middle class neighborhood, and families are struggling to make ends meet. They need the money more than the church. Infact, today it is just too expensive to make a church as lavish as in years gone by. But, if I had millions, or even billions I would donate some of it to build a traditional ornate church.

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[> [> [> [> [> I agree -- Joan, 15:46:09 04/01/08 Tue [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

I agree that you have to go, even if you don't like the style of the building. But given a choice... :)

This is the Cathedral in my state. It's just gorgeous. My son's freshman Mass and High School graduation were celebrated here. What an amazing place. This is the kind of church that feels special to me.

My parish church is much simpler, as you can tell by the pic above. It's very homey and comfortable. It's the traditional style that I love.

Providence is a city with amazing architecture, especially when you consider the size. If I can find some photos, I'll link them here. Maybe this why I prefer quality traditional structures to modern junk. Oh, did I say junk? I meant "art". :)

http://www.cathedralprovidence.org/index.html

Joan

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[> [> [> [> [> Now that's a mall. -- Joan, 15:54:39 04/01/08 Tue [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

This picture is of the first indoor mall in RI. It was the first indoor mall in the country, too. I grew up shopping in places like this. Modern malls pale in comparison.

Isn't this gorgeous?!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1428/1431131937_fe45a34a34.jpg?v=0

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[> [> [> [> [> [> It's beautiful....looks like a Greek temple -- Neysa, 20:36:08 04/01/08 Tue [1] (user-2ive07m.dialup.mindspring.com/165.247.0.246)

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[> [> [> [> [> [> That is breathtaking. -- Catie, 06:29:23 04/02/08 Wed [1] (h95.231.140.67.ip.alltel.net/67.140.231.95)

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[> [> [> [> [> Underdog!! -- Joan, 19:25:01 04/02/08 Wed [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

I forgot all about Underdog. They made a live-action Underdog movie, and they filmed it in Providence. It's a cute movie. If you rent it, you'll get a good idea of what Providence looks like. The state house is shown inside and out. Amazing. And they show some East Side houses--it's really nice there. One of the park scenes was shot in our national park. You wouldn't believe it's a national park. It's 3 acres (maybe that big, I'm not sure), and it's smack in the city. If you stood in the middle, you could throw a rock and hit the passing cars on the two streets that the park sits between.

That's Roger Williams (statue) overlooking the city in another park scene. (different park). You'll see the columns of the mall in the pic I posted the link to.

Have any movies been made in your backyard? I'd like to see them.

Joan

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Joan yes -- Catie, 14:11:42 04/03/08 Thu [1] (h95.231.140.67.ip.alltel.net/67.140.231.95)

Literally, in my backyard! It involves Easter baskets and teenage boys. LOL

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