The Coke Fix -- Catholic Friends Forum

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Date Posted: 13:17:00 08/19/07 Sun
Author: Joan
Author Host/IP: ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net / 68.0.253.131
Subject: The Coke Fix

There's an interesting letter to the editor in today's paper. The man is a cashier at a grocery store, and he says that he's sick of seeing people using their food cards to buy things like Coke, candy, chips, ice-cream, "and other junk". He says that food cards that are paid for through our taxes should be used for needed groceries only, not for junk food.

What do you think?

I'm asking this on this forum, because as Xians we're supposed to help the poor-feed them, clothe them, etc.
But how much are we required to provide? Are we required to provide whatever kind of food they want? Should we require the recipients to buy only good food?

I have a pet peeve about this system. It's smoking. IMO, no parent who smokes should be allowed to get assistance from the state. If they can afford cigarettes, they can afford a gallon of milk. If they can afford to pay 5.50 a pack for cigarettes a day, they don't need free lunches at school.

What do you think? When is it OK to draw the line on helping the poor? Is it OK to require certain behaviors of the recipient? (making good food choices, watching how they spend money other than on food, etc)

I get really annoyed when I see the people line up for a free $5 backpack for school as they put out a cigarette on the sidewalk. Grrrr! If they hadn't bought that pack of cigarettes, they could have bought the backpack! Why do we allow this?!

Joan

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Replies:

[> Re: The Coke Fix -- Neysa, 14:15:44 08/19/07 Sun [1] (user-38lciam.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.73.86)

Since it is our taxes paying for this we should require the recipients to buy only good food...no junk food, and no cigarettes. We should watch how they spend their money. This is a topic that really gets me very angry. I was standing in line in a grocery store and the man in front of me had food stamps. He was buying soda, chips, all junk food.

It is not just the people who are getting food stamps. In my state there is a program for these so called poor people. They can have up to four children and our tax dollars pay for formula and the diapers. A lot of times it is teenagers using this program.

The house next door to me was owned by my great aunt. When she died she left it to my cousin. When he decided to sell it on his own. I made him an offer which he ignored for spite. He allowed this family to move in they got a loan from the bank through HUD. I know they get food stamps because they brag about it. That makes me so angry.

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[> Re: The Coke Fix -- Barb, 16:09:24 08/19/07 Sun [1] (clgrtnt7-port-43.dial.telus.net/161.184.52.43)

There are problems with the Indian population here. They are given a certain allowance by the provincial gov't each month so they can maintain a balanced diet. Unfortunately when we see them in our local grocery stores, their carts are filled with pop and chips and chocolate bars...and they're going to the liquor vendors alot. Finally the province has started to clamp down on them and aids are being hired to take them to the grocery stores to make certain they fill their shopping carts with the right foods.

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[> Re: The Coke Fix -- Catie, 17:07:51 08/19/07 Sun [1] (h69.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.69)

H. G. Wells:
From the book Utopia: "In all the round world there is no meat. There used to be. But now we cannot stand the thought of slaughterhouses."

Mahatma Gandhi
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Alexander Pope
To err is human; to forgive, divine.

Dr. Norman Vincent Peale was once seen giving a homeless man a $10 bill. One of his peers asked "Don't you worry that man is going to buy liquor with that money?" To which he replied something to this effect: 'I gave. God saw my heart. The burden of spending that money in the proper manner is no longer my responsibility.'

I'm not happy about seeing cigarettes bought instead of milk with governement assistant monies. But to be honest, there's nothing I can do to change it. It's always been a sore spot with many. For me, I have to pick and choose my battles. I'm much rather concerned about money spent on fleece projects and uselss wars.

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[> [> Either or -- Joan, 04:15:55 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"For me, I have to pick and choose my battles. I'm much rather concerned about money spent on fleece projects and uselss wars."

I don't think we have to pick our battles. We can vote on many issues. Well, I guess we would have to pick our battles if the pro-war guy was also the anti-welfare waste guy. You would really have to decide which issue was more important. So I take my knee-jerk response back. :-)

Forgiveness is one thing (from one of the quotes), but allowing someone to rob you over and over again is just plain stupid. At some point it must become a sin to allow yourself to be abused for no reason other than the other's greed.

Are we as Christians responsible for other people? Is it Christian to allow someone to steal without even making a comment about it to that person? This situation involves the lies they tell to get the help, and then the stealing they do once they have the food cards.

The reason they had to switch to the cards was that the people were selling the stamps for a little cash (less than the face value) so they could spend the money of cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and whatever else they wanted that food stamps woulnd't cover.

From what I hear, they still find a way to cheat the system.

Is it Christian to allow this to keep happening?

It makes you wonder, doesn't it? Obesity is a huge problem in the lowest economic class. If they're using some of the food money for other things, and they're still obeses, doesn't it seem that we could spend a lot less on the food stamp program and still feed the poor?

The kids eat as school. The family gets food from the food bank. It's no wonder they can afford to sell the food stamps for less than face value and still manage to be overweight.

We're acting like fools.

Joan

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[> [> [> Re: Either or -- Catie, 05:14:25 08/20/07 Mon [1] (h69.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.69)

"Forgiveness is one thing (from one of the quotes), but allowing someone to rob you over and over again is just plain stupid. At some point it must become a sin to allow yourself to be abused for no reason other than the other's greed."

Forgiveness is everything! :) Didn't Jesus set the example. How many times are you going to forgive? Christ said 70 x 7. In other words, there should be no limit to forgiveness. How many times will we be forgiven by God in our life?

But ...Your point of "allowing" someone to rob you is entirely different from what I was picking up from the posts. I was referring to federal monies given to folks who abuse it. THAT is a battle I can not fight. Sure I can speak about living in a democracy, about voting to change things. But in few, cases will that work. The abuse of federal monies has been going on since organized government came in to being. Fleece projects are a hoot. Except the joke is on the average tax payer. Forgiving the man on the street for taking money I give him in good faith, using it in some foul way, I can forgive. The politician who is blindedly spending my tax dollars?? Well let's just say I have a lot of confessing to do.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Either or -- Joan, 06:32:17 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"The politician who is blindedly spending my tax dollars?? Well let's just say I have a lot of confessing to do."

LOL

You and me both. :-)

Joan

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[> [> A funny/pathetic story about a "needy" homeless woman. -- Joan, 04:33:23 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

Bob was working in the city w/ another guy who was kinda new to the country. The country he came from is very poor. They have many poor are truly needy.

Bob tried to tell him that here it's a little bit different. The poor guy was so naive. :-)

When the "homeless" woman came up to Bob and the other guy and asked for money for food, Bob told her "No" flat out. When Bob says no, no one asks again. :-) Well, the other guy was shocked. He asked Bob why he said no if the woman was homeless and hungry. Bob told him that she didn't want money for food--she wanted it for either alcohol or drugs. The guy couldn't beleive that, so he walked up to her w/ his lunch and gave her one of his sandwiches--tried to give her one. She looked at it and called him a string of 4-letter words. Bob was rotfl. He said "I *tried* to tell you!"

I get a kick out of the guys who stand on the corner of busy, retail sector intersections w/ signs that say they will work for food. First, many of the retail places are looking for workers. Second, these guys aren't asking the businesses for work, they're asking the people in the cars. And what kind of work will I have for anyone while I'm sitting in my car at an intersection on my way to Wal-mart. Why don't they follow me to Wal-mart and ask for a job?

If you're going to ask for money, be honest. If you want money for a drink, say that. I would be much more likely to pay for a beer if they ask for it than if they claim it's to buy a hotdog. And working for food at an intersection? That's just a pathetic lie. :-)

I have to ask again. Is it Christian to allow people to behave like this? Not merely to allow it, but to participate in the lies and stealing?

I occasionally contribute to the food bank at my church. I feel much better about that. At least I know the food makes it out of the church and into their cars. What they do with it after that is unknown, but I bet more $-wise it's a better bet than the food stamp program. There is no government agency involved, which saves a ton of money.

I would like to see more private charity food banks and fewer government programs. I would also like to see the recipients blood-tested for illegal drugs and nicotine once a year, with the idea that if they have the $ for these things, they have the $ for food.

They should also have to declare all posessions, like cars, jewelry, electronic equipment, etc.

There was a family here that were drug dealers. The whole family was invloved, including the kids. They were on the dole for every program available to the poorest of the poor, because they showed no income. Well, they have 3 or 4 luxury cars and assorted other things that should have alerted the social worker that they didn't need the food stamps.

Sickening. And we're made to feel like we're uncaring, unforgiving, even cruel if we dare to speak up and say that this (even the less flagrant examples) isn't right.

Joan

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[> [> [> Re: A funny/pathetic story about a "needy" homeless woman. -- Catie, 05:19:41 08/20/07 Mon [1] (h69.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.69)

Panhandling is illegal. Folks standing around with signs begging for food or money is a misdemeanor. Law officals are too busy with other stuff I guess to pick up those folks, book em only to let them out the next day. It actually costs us more money to house and feed them in the jail. So it's a catch 22.

I'm all for helping the needy. The new testament speaks volumes about helping the widows, orphans and the homeless. I am not going to blantantly hand over money to a drug user. No intelligent folk would. But I try to use prudence and good judgement. There is a time to give and a time withhold.

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[> [> [> [> Re: A funny/pathetic story about a "needy" homeless woman. -- Joan, 06:37:24 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"I am not going to blantantly hand over money to a drug user. No intelligent folk would."'

I agree. And I think our government should follow this policy as well Nicotene is a drug. If they can afford their habit, they don't need all of food money they take. Cigs at 5.50 a pack! Smoking 1 or 2 packs a day every day, 365. That's more then $2,000 a year, or $4,000 for a 2-pack habit.

And they can't afford a backpack for the kid? A bologna Sandwich? A box of crayons that are on sale at Wal-Mart for 20 cents?!

How do they do this and sleep at night?

They really burn me up. :-)

Joan

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[> [> [> Joan they sleep very well at night... -- Lynn, 08:46:11 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

They have the US at their feet. They don't have to go out and rob a bank or anything, they do the robbing right in front of the governments eyes.

I love the welfare program at our church. If there is a needy family, our church makes sure they get food, clothing, shelter etc until the family gets on their feet. Our church does alot, even for non members of the church. I've seen some miracles happen in the short time i've been a member of this church.

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[> [> [> [> Re: Joan they sleep very well at night... -- Joan, 09:50:10 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

We do the same. But they also decided a few years ago that those families that can afford new cars and trips to Disney no longer qualify for scholarships to the parish school.

And these people are citizens. There families have been here for generations, and they are obviously not poor in the true sense of the word.

Imagine asking your church for $ to send your kid to the school, and then buying new cars and taking fabulous family vacations. And I'm sure that they slept well, too. They figure they deserve a vacation. And they figured that no one would have a problem with them taking $ from the church for school and then giving their own surplus money to Mickey Mouse and Henry Ford for fun and games. Sheesh!!

Where's the responsibility? Why do some feel that, not only don't they have to help those who have less, they feel like they are entitled to any $ or goods that someone will give them, when they have more than "enough"?! Why don't they feel like they should be doing this for their own kids? Why isn't there an internal voice that tells them that taking money from the church when you can afford a trip to Disney is *dead wrong*?

Joan

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[> [> [> [> [> Beats me... -- Lynn, 11:18:17 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

the system is whacked. Many changes are needed and no one is stepping up to the plate. Us little people don't have a say in anything, so it's a waste of time. I say, if you can't beat em, join em. But then again, two wrongs don't make a right. Your damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Oh well, carry on.

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[> [> I was thinking about this in the car today. -- Joan, 13:06:57 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"Forgiveness is everything! :) Didn't Jesus set the example. How many times are you going to forgive? Christ said 70 x 7. In other words, there should be no limit to forgiveness. How many times will we be forgiven by God in our life?"

I agree with that. But the Bible also tells us to tell a sinner privately that what he's doing is wrong. You give him a chance to change his ways. If he doesn't change, you bring it up publicly. If he still doesn't change his ways, you don't associate with him.

I think that's the lesson that the American public needs to learn. Give these people a chance to be honest. If they refuse, then we stop associating with them--we stop supporting them in their criminal ways. In knowing that they're stealing and looking the other way, aren't we encouraging them to steal? By doing that, we're saying that it's OK to cheat the system. They know that everyone knows what they're doing, including the people who administer these programs, so they don't feel guilty about stealing. It's accepted as business as usual.

A few brave politicians have taken steps in the right directing in welfare reform. We need more true Americans in office to continue the reform.

Joan

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[> Re: The Coke Fix -- Lynn, 08:38:58 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

The food vouchers should be specific and not include junk food or soda's. You should be able to but meat, vegetables, fruits, rice, beans, macaroni products, breads, peanut butter, cheeses, etc

Junk food should be bought like non edibles with the consumer's own money.

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[> [> I thought -- Catie, 09:06:21 08/20/07 Mon [1] (h69.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.69)

they do have limitations on what those vouchers can buy-?? I watched a very young couple with a new baby use the W.I.C. (women, infant, and children) vouchers. I don't know how they regulate them, but I watched the couple and the supermarket clerk separate grocery items. One group was paid with vouchers, the other with cash. In come cases I think the programs work. I would hate to think some children would have to go without because some irresponsible idiots spend carelessly. There are some deserving souls. But of course, for every geniune you have 2 that are a farse. Sad.

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[> [> [> Catie... -- Lynn, 11:28:33 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

The WIC program is great because they give you vouchers for what you can buy with it, and it states exactly what you can get with it. You cant buy junk food items or soda with it. Too bad food stamps weren't done the same way. Wanna see how many people would be crazy because of that change?

Our church welfare system works the same way. They have a bishop's storehouse where the food is kept, and it's the basic's of everything you need. No junk food is provided nor is soda. Household items are included which food stamps aren't. You can get laundry detergent, bleach, aluminum foil, wax paper, toilet bowl cleaner, dishwashing liquid, toothpaste, toothbrushes, underarm deodorant, razors, shaving cream, and basically essentials for the home.

I'm with you on that Catie, the doctrine is sometimes hard to swallow but their values are something else. I have never seen a group of people who do for others as much as this church has. I mean, you just say the word and they are there. Amazing, simply amazing. Best part is, you dont have belong to their church for them to do anything for you. The love and support you get is a blessing.

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[> [> Lynn -- catie, 09:14:18 08/20/07 Mon [1] (h69.42.91.75.ip.alltel.net/75.91.42.69)

All churches are SUPPOSE to be doing that very thing. It's hard not to feel good about a church that believes in charity. :) The bible speaks plenty about taking care of widows and orphans especially. Although I do not agree with the doctrine of the Latter Day Saints, they certainly are strong in their pursuit in keeping families close and helping each other. :)

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[> [> [> Wasn't it the LDS church that used to have those really -- Joan, 12:59:00 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

great family commercials. The commercial was on just to demonstrated how to handle stress in family situations. They were really, really good commercials.

I haven't seen one in a long time.

Joan

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[> [> [> [> LDS Commerials... -- Lynn, 21:03:53 08/20/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

I go to children's baptisms at times, and in between the baptisms, because each family goes in one at a time to the baptismal font, we sit and watch all them old time commericals. They are so cute.

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