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Date Posted: 19:07:20 08/05/07 Sun
Author: Joan
Author Host/IP: ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net / 68.0.253.131
Subject: The new Adam
In reply to: Lynn 's message, "Neysa..." on 22:07:43 08/04/07 Sat

"Latter Day Saint religion holds that Adam and Michael the archangel are the same individual. Michael the archangel fought against and cast out Satan, "that old serpent," at the conclusion of the "war in heaven" during our pre-mortal exsistence (see Book of Revelation 12:7-9). "Michael" was born into this mortal existence as the man "Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days" (see Doctrine and Covenants 27:11 and 107:54)."

I'm really confused by LDS beliefs--mostly because I've never spent time trying to understand. St Michael is the same as Adam. Jesus is the "new Adam". Do the LDS believe that he is literally the new Adam, meaning that Michael, Adam, and Jesus are the same person?

Please excuse the stupidity of that question. I know I could look it up myself, but it's so much easier to ask than to wade through tomes, especially when you don't have a clue about any of it. :-)

Joan

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[> [> [> [> I don't have an answer either... -- Lynn, 21:20:32 08/05/07 Sun [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

I am very new to the LDS teachings and have no clue, though some things have confused me to. Sorry I can't help you Joan.

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[> [> [> [> [> Lynn, if it's not too personal... -- Joan, 05:02:27 08/06/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

I'm interested in what prompted you to switch religions. Feel free to tell me to mind my own business. I'm not asking to pick your answer to pieces or to start a debate about it, I'm just curious.

I was brought up Catholic in a parish that I detested and still do. I switched to an Episc. church that I didn't like. Then another, which I didn't like--the people seemed to be playing at life. One said "This is just like the Waltons!". Good grief, let's live in reality, ladies. :-)

Anyway, I ended up in a Methodist church that I liked very much, except that I couldn't figure out what anyone believed beyond that Jesus is the savior. I went anyway, just believing what I believed and not worrying about it.

Then someone on Ralph's (now Brenda's) forum made some crazy statements about the Catholic Church. Some of the statements were right out of the anti-Catholic literature. Other statements were more innocent and common misconceptions. There was one man who was especially nasty, and I responded to his hate-filled and incorrect statements. In defending the faith, I realized that Catholicism had the answers I was looking for. Though I was sitting in other churches, Catholicism held the fullness of the faith that the other churches lacked. So, not immediately, but eventually, I made it back home to the Catholic Church. Thanks to a man who thought he was doing a good job at slamming the faith, one of the lost Catholics found her way home. I figure that God sent that man for me and others. I made it back to the CC, and now I teach Catechism. I doubt that he knew he was doing God's work. God sure does work in mysterious ways. :-)
I hold no grudges against that man for his comments. Those comments are exactly, apparently, what I needed to start on the road home.

Joan

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Lynn, if it's not too personal... -- Lynn, 08:29:16 08/06/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

Joan, when I was younger I always had a belief in Jesus Christ. Growing up in a Jewish household, the mere mention of Jesus was a no no. I guess you can say as I got older, the more in tune I was with the spirit and of the Father and Son. I did not believe in the trinity, I always had the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were seperate entities. Many things about the LDS church are very confusing to me, even after a year, but I like several things about the church. For one, they are a family oriented church. Everything about it is keeping families together for time and all eternity. Another thing I like is that everyone in church knows one another like a family. I don't believe there isn't one person who doesn't know who someone is unless they are visiting. I LOVE the fact when others are in need, that they help no matter what the circumstances. If someone is struggling financially, they help with food, and in some cases when people have lost their jobs, have helped with the bills. Many people are against paying the 10% tithing to the church, but I must tell you that the 10% that you pay is nothing compared to the help they give you once you need it. There have been cases when people who have not joined the church also benefit. There was this older couple in the 70's who daughter was killed in a car accident. They inherited 7 of their grandchildren ranging in ages 3 months to 16 years of age. There was no father in the picture at all. This couple was living in a very tiny apartment. Anyway, one day at church someone mentioned this family and what had happened and asked that if we all got together to get the essentials the family needed, that it would not only be a blessing for them, but for us as well. Jesus taught " Love one another as I have Loved you ". We bought soap, toothpaste, shampoo, towels & washcloths, people donated clothing, mattresses and in some cases beds/crib for the babies, plus food stuff. The following week, the person in charge was crying her eyes out because there was an overabundance of things our ward had gathered for this family in need. We have had many other families in crisis since then, and we have helped them many times over. I have never seen this type of help or Love from any other church in my life. I'm not saying there isn't any out there that would do the same, but I have never seen it. The doctrine at times may be hard to swallow, but the overall picture is why I joined.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> One other thing Joan... -- Lynn, 08:31:25 08/06/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

we focus on the Living Christ instead of the dead Christ on the cross. We focus on Christ resurrected which is why we call him the Living Christ. We have that belief because we too have hope of the resurrection.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Lynn, if it's not too personal... -- Joan, 12:30:47 08/06/07 Mon [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"we focus on the Living Christ instead of the dead Christ on the cross."

Do others think that Catholics concentrate on the "dead Christ"?

Joan

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Joan... -- Lynn, 13:07:38 08/06/07 Mon [1] (ip72-193-232-42.lv.lv.cox.net/72.193.232.42)

from my observation of it, yes. Wearing the cross symbolizes the dead Christ, him on the cross at church also symbolizes the dead Christ. The only time the church recognizes the resurrected Christ is during Easter. We celebrate the living resurrected Christ all year long, and Easter is when it's celebrated as the day Christ is resurrected, but we don't make a big deal over it.

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