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Date Posted: 11:16:53 07/24/07 Tue
Author: Catie
Author Host/IP: h166.243.213.151.ip.alltel.net / 151.213.243.166
Subject: Neysa
In reply to: Neysa 's message, "Why Does God Allow Pain ?" on 00:51:10 07/24/07 Tue

This one requires a long answer (my opinion) and I have no time now. But I want to say this briefly and if we get a chance to discuss more, then lets do so.

Without sounding too far "out there" remember there was once a war in heaven. That is when Lucifer was cast from heaven, because of his evil and desire to over throw God. Because God can not, does not lie, the evil we see is because he is keeping his word from the beginning of time. God created Lucifer, thus God created bad as well as good. The scripture teaches us that it is Satan who is the accuser of man. (remember all the negative things you think about yourself or someone else? the things murderers sit around and think about- Where does evil thoughts originate? satan) He is the one who comes "as light" but he is darkness. The bible says he comes to steal, kill and destroy. He is in a competition with God. God has given him limited power. God can't retrack his word. Man has choices to make. God is hoping we will choose him, but he won't make us do so. Often the evil we see is a result of our actions...for every action there is a reaction. God has tried to warn us ahead of time. Like sexual promiscuity. Folks think they will ignore the laws of God. They like Eve think he only wants to weld his power and keep us from good things. Now we see what sexual promiscuity can do. It kills. God tried to warn man. Does that make sense? He gives us road signs everywhere. We go right ahead and do what we want. We see the result of our own actions. Cancer, I belive with all my heart originated in the pits of hell. How did satan do it? Look at all the things we greedy folks felt we had to have. We moved away from natural foods God provided and opted for something "more, quicker, easier, more preserved", etc. I hope this made sense. God doesn't kill his beloved children. People kill people. satan is at the root of all evil.

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[> [> Catie....................... -- Neysa, 13:09:54 07/24/07 Tue [1] (user-38lcign.dialup.mindspring.com/209.86.74.23)

First, let me just say that I don't believe that Cancer is from Satin's influence of man's greed. People have died from having Cancer long before our modern foods with their added preservatives.

I just didn't mean physical pain that God allows us to suffer. Also, mental pain, i.e: if you're out of work...worrying of how you are going to pay the bills, feed your family, keep a roof over their heads. Then there is pain from 'broken heart' loved one dies,etc....

You stated God created Lucifer, creating bad as well as good. In the beginning, however, God created all good. Lucifer was a fallen angel from heaven. You make a very good point because of Lucifer's greed for power to overthrow God, which was an evil act. Ever since mans greed has caused us to suffer. But, I thought Jesus dying on the cross for us was not only to forgive mans greed, but to stop all types of suffering for this greed.

Lastly, God is more powerful than Lucifer. Why doesn't God destroy both Lucifer and hell into oblivion ?

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[> [> [> Re: Catie....................... -- Catie, 13:55:48 07/24/07 Tue [1] (h166.243.213.151.ip.alltel.net/151.213.243.166)

First I want to thank you for allowing me to give my opinions here and being tolerant of my "disagreeing". I emphasis "opinions". Of course, like anyone who gives an opinion, I think I am really "on to something". lol Seriously, I consider what I say to be right. Otherwise I'd answer "I don't know" and still be seeking. That doesn't mean I'm closed minded. I need to see something in God's word in order to change my "opinion". I imagine everyone here is the same. As it is, I am enjoying reading others opinions here. I hope you are enjoying it too. :)

I used cancer as an example. Because it is not God who causes suffering, and cancer causes great suffering, I consider it from satan. I don't think a person who has cancer is evil. That's not what I'm saying at all. There is good and evil. They both come from somewhere, both have a root. Anything opposite of good is evil. God can not be evil. Therefore, the author of evil is satan.

We live in this world therefore we are subject to bad things, cancer is just one of many bad things. People also died of cancer years ago because there are many forms of cancer. It doesn't have to be food preservatives. Whatever it is that negatively affects our bodies, goes against nature, against what God had planned for us, is not God's fault. Paradise was perfect. But we don't live there and because the world if full of bad, and we must live here, it will affect us. As far as cancer, well it doesn't have to be in the food chain, it can be in something we come in contact with daily and not even be aware of it and each body reacts differently. Some build an immunity some do not.

When you speak of suffering are you wanting to know why Christians suffer or people in general?

Jesus dying on the cross didn't mean we would be free of worries, pain and suffering. He said to his disciples. "In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world." He didn't say we were going to have tribulations but his dying took care of that. Nope. He said he offered us a blessed hope that there is a better life beyond this one. In this world we can have peace THROUGH our tribulations. Not instead of our tribulations. As is our faith, then so is the depth of our peace.

I think it breaks God's heart to see us suffering. Sometimes we suffer from disobedience. Again, for every action there is a reaction. God can forgive us but acts have been set in to motion and we have to suffer through the result of our mistakes. He has promised he would be there with us. He never promised he make sure we were worry free. When we come out of the fire we are wiser, and our faith is stronger than ever. If a baby never got past crawling, if his mother carried him always, those muscles in his legs would atrophy. They would be useless. God wants us to learn to walk in faith. He will catch us if we fall.

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[> [> The Cross -- Joan, 13:28:06 07/24/07 Tue [1] (ip68-0-253-131.ri.ri.cox.net/68.0.253.131)

"But, I thought Jesus dying on the cross for us was not only to forgive mans greed, but to stop all types of suffering for this greed."

Jesus' dying on the cross made salvation possible for us, but doesn't guarantee it. It didn't (I don't think) take away our ability to sin, because we still have free will and can turn from God at any point in our lives. When we sin, we are turning away from God.

God tells us not to worry. He tells us not to be afraid. But we don't listen. We're unruly children. :-)

Joan

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