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Date Posted: 11:45:10 06/06/02 Thu
Author: Jay Dee
Subject: Re: The Holy Spirit
In reply to: David 's message, "Re: The Holy Spirit" on 09:43:32 06/05/02 Wed

David, don't knock Greek. Many people use the languages and it is a good tool in trying to understand a passage, especially in light of the fact that when you translate something from one language to the next, you often lose something because some things are either hard to translate or are simply unstranslatable.

I am looking at my Greek text Doug, and I see what you mean, but still disagree with you conclusion. There are more than one participles in the verses we are looking at. The one you pointed to in verse 39 is an Aorist participle - oi pisteusantes "the ones having believed." You must keep in mind that this is a narrators comment, and was written several decades after the events being described. Depending on your position as to the date of John, it could be anywhere from 70 - 90 A.D. I believe it was written in the last decade of the first century. There were many who had believed at that point. Also, look at the participle in verse 38. It is interesting that Jesus did not say, "Those having believed in me" pisteusantes but used a present participle, "the one believing unto me" pisteuon eis eme.

In light of Acts 2; 1 Cor 12:11; Romans 8, and other passages teaching the necessity of possessing the Holy Spirit, it seems that you can make an interpretation either way, but it doesn't have good support. Taking John by itself, I can see how one might come to the conclusion that the Spirit in John was meant only for the current disciples (even just the 12) because Jesus promises it specifically to them in the uppor room discourses in chapter 14-16, he promises to send the the paraclete, the helper. Then in John 20 he "breathes" on them the Spirit (I wonder, is this an allusion to creation where God creates Adam and breathes into him the breath of life? -- Is Jesus creating a "new man" by breathing the Spirit into them??? Hmmm).

The problem I have with limiting it, though, is still Acts 2:39. Peter clearly says that the "promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself."

Tell me how you come to the conclusion that this is not talking about reception of the Holy Spirit (that may or may not be accompanied by miraculous gifts). Maybe you already did, but I don't remember it.

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